China's Coming Huge Space Project

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Doc
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Re: China's Coming Huge Space Project

Post by Doc » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:27 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:52 am
Doc,

You may fantasize as much as you wish but the fact is that a dirt poor country in 1949 became the number one power in 2021. The CCP must have done something right, don't you think?...Why insist on blaming the CCP if the results have been so good? I realize that being "exceptional" and "objective" at the same time is beyond your power to achieve...Nobody can be better than the US, so facts must be disregarded... :twisted:
The "Great Leap forward killed tens of millions of people through central planning. The cultural revolution killed tens of millions more. Both wrecked the Chinese economy. Both showed that the CCP doesn't care about its citizens (maybe that was the point) Now XI wants more central planning. Connect the dots.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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Re: China's Coming Huge Space Project

Post by Sertorio » Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:21 pm

Doc wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:27 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:52 am
Doc,

You may fantasize as much as you wish but the fact is that a dirt poor country in 1949 became the number one power in 2021. The CCP must have done something right, don't you think?...Why insist on blaming the CCP if the results have been so good? I realize that being "exceptional" and "objective" at the same time is beyond your power to achieve...Nobody can be better than the US, so facts must be disregarded... :twisted:
The "Great Leap forward killed tens of millions of people through central planning. The cultural revolution killed tens of millions more. Both wrecked the Chinese economy. Both showed that the CCP doesn't care about its citizens (maybe that was the point) Now XI wants more central planning. Connect the dots.
That's what went wrong. And what went right? Who did it? God Almighty? On balance, what went right was a lot more important than what went wrong. Why can't you accept it?...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: China's Coming Huge Space Project

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:26 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:21 pm
Why can't you accept it?...
Because 50 million people died who didn't have to.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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Sertorio
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Re: China's Coming Huge Space Project

Post by Sertorio » Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:21 pm
Why can't you accept it?...
Because 50 million people died who didn't have to.
Even so. It seems that 1,350,000,000 people are a lot better off now than they would have been without the CCP... Maybe compared to the 1 million people the US killed in Vietnam the Chinese victims of CCP policies may seem a lot, but what good did the US do in Vietnam to compensate for their senseless killing?...

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Re: China's Coming Huge Space Project

Post by Doc » Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:50 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:21 pm
Why can't you accept it?...
Because 50 million people died who didn't have to.
Even so. It seems that 1,350,000,000 people are a lot better off now than they would have been without the CCP... Maybe compared to the 1 million people the US killed in Vietnam the Chinese victims of CCP policies may seem a lot, but what good did the US do in Vietnam to compensate for their senseless killing?...
Lets see. Seem like that argument has been made before. Now where was that?

Germany 1929

Image


Germany 1938

Image

So clearly Germans and the world were better off due to the Nazi Party !! :evil:
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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Re: China's Coming Huge Space Project

Post by Sertorio » Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:23 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:50 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:21 pm
Why can't you accept it?...
Because 50 million people died who didn't have to.
Even so. It seems that 1,350,000,000 people are a lot better off now than they would have been without the CCP... Maybe compared to the 1 million people the US killed in Vietnam the Chinese victims of CCP policies may seem a lot, but what good did the US do in Vietnam to compensate for their senseless killing?...
Lets see. Seem like that argument has been made before. Now where was that?

Germany 1929

Image


Germany 1938

Image

So clearly Germans and the world were better off due to the Nazi Party !! :evil:
Germany and the Germans were in 1938 better off than in 1929. No doubt about it, at least as far as the Germans themselves saw it. The trouble is what came after 1938...

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Re: China's Coming Huge Space Project

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:17 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:21 pm
Why can't you accept it?...
Because 50 million people died who didn't have to.
Even so. It seems that 1,350,000,000 people are a lot better off now than they would have been without the CCP...
Your handwaiving away the deaths of fifty million people is disgusting.

Moreover, the lesson of Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore is that Chinese culture is entirely compatible with prosperity without mass murder.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am
Maybe compared to the 1 million people the US killed in Vietnam the Chinese victims of CCP policies may seem a lot, but what good did the US do in Vietnam to compensate for their senseless killing?...
No one ever said the U.S. has never overseen atrocities. And the U.S. did no good there at all. But as you well know, that's a red herring, you deflecting attention away from the greater evil because you only care about the lesser.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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Re: China's Coming Huge Space Project

Post by Sertorio » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:59 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:17 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:21 pm
Why can't you accept it?...
Because 50 million people died who didn't have to.
Even so. It seems that 1,350,000,000 people are a lot better off now than they would have been without the CCP...
Your handwaiving away the deaths of fifty million people is disgusting.

Moreover, the lesson of Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore is that Chinese culture is entirely compatible with prosperity without mass murder.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am
Maybe compared to the 1 million people the US killed in Vietnam the Chinese victims of CCP policies may seem a lot, but what good did the US do in Vietnam to compensate for their senseless killing?...
No one ever said the U.S. has never overseen atrocities. And the U.S. did no good there at all. But as you well know, that's a red herring, you deflecting attention away from the greater evil because you only care about the lesser.
I am just drawing your attention to the fact that we are not choosing between good and evil, but between two orders of evil. And while the CCP and the Soviet Communist Party have been responsible for more inland killings than any American government, when you look at the world at large you will see that the US has caused a lot more suffering than either Russia or China. If the hegemonic power of the US is destroyed by the actions of China and Russia I guess the world will be a lot better off.

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Re: China's Coming Huge Space Project

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:33 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:59 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:17 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:21 pm
Why can't you accept it?...
Because 50 million people died who didn't have to.
Even so. It seems that 1,350,000,000 people are a lot better off now than they would have been without the CCP...
Your handwaiving away the deaths of fifty million people is disgusting.

Moreover, the lesson of Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore is that Chinese culture is entirely compatible with prosperity without mass murder.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am
Maybe compared to the 1 million people the US killed in Vietnam the Chinese victims of CCP policies may seem a lot, but what good did the US do in Vietnam to compensate for their senseless killing?...
No one ever said the U.S. has never overseen atrocities. And the U.S. did no good there at all. But as you well know, that's a red herring, you deflecting attention away from the greater evil because you only care about the lesser.
I am just drawing your attention to the fact that we are not choosing between good and evil, but between two orders of evil. And while the CCP and the Soviet Communist Party have been responsible for more inland killings than any American government, when you look at the world at large you will see that the US has caused a lot more suffering than either Russia or China. If the hegemonic power of the US is destroyed by the actions of China and Russia I guess the world will be a lot better off.
Unlike you, I'm not choosing either one.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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Re: China's Coming Huge Space Project

Post by Doc » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:47 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:59 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:17 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:21 pm
Why can't you accept it?...
Because 50 million people died who didn't have to.
Even so. It seems that 1,350,000,000 people are a lot better off now than they would have been without the CCP...
Your handwaiving away the deaths of fifty million people is disgusting.

Moreover, the lesson of Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore is that Chinese culture is entirely compatible with prosperity without mass murder.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:58 am
Maybe compared to the 1 million people the US killed in Vietnam the Chinese victims of CCP policies may seem a lot, but what good did the US do in Vietnam to compensate for their senseless killing?...
No one ever said the U.S. has never overseen atrocities. And the U.S. did no good there at all. But as you well know, that's a red herring, you deflecting attention away from the greater evil because you only care about the lesser.
I am just drawing your attention to the fact that we are not choosing between good and evil, but between two orders of evil. And while the CCP and the Soviet Communist Party have been responsible for more inland killings than any American government, when you look at the world at large you will see that the US has caused a lot more suffering than either Russia or China. If the hegemonic power of the US is destroyed by the actions of China and Russia I guess the world will be a lot better off.
Dead is dead Sertorio. The US did not kill 1 million people in Vietnam that was deaths by all combatants.

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“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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