He just out and says it.......

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 7809
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: He just out and says it.......

Post by Sertorio » Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:56 am

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:29 pm
Discounting philosophy and religion while making a dogma of 'science' only means we no longer have a common language for discussing life within the mind and that human existence is in doing as much as in being......
I see no difference between science and philosophy...

User avatar
SteveFoerster
Posts: 3526
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Probably DCA, YYJ, or DOM
Contact:

Re: He just out and says it.......

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:23 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:56 am
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:29 pm
Discounting philosophy and religion while making a dogma of 'science' only means we no longer have a common language for discussing life within the mind and that human existence is in doing as much as in being......
I see no difference between science and philosophy...
The way I see it, both are part of zetetics, the overall search for truth. But science is the subset where you can follow the scientific method, i.e., evidence.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 7809
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: He just out and says it.......

Post by Sertorio » Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:38 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:23 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:56 am
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:29 pm
Discounting philosophy and religion while making a dogma of 'science' only means we no longer have a common language for discussing life within the mind and that human existence is in doing as much as in being......
I see no difference between science and philosophy...
The way I see it, both are part of zetetics, the overall search for truth. But science is the subset where you can follow the scientific method, i.e., evidence.
Philosophy is not foreign to evidence:
Evidence is not proof. Proof is something that you get through deductive or logical
reasoning: all men are mortal, Socrates is a man, and therefore Socrates is mortal. If the
premises are true, there is no way logically that the conclusion can be false.

Evidence is something different. You gather evidence in cases where you have no way of
hoping or expecting that you will be able to generate proof. You have this abstract
proposition that can’t be directly confirmed through direct observation and that isn’t amenable
to the kind of proof that I have just outlined. So what do you do? Well, you gather evidence
that increases the confidence that you have in your abstract proposition or hypothesis. So
evidence generates not proof, not certainty, it generates conviction, it generates confidence,
it generates probabilistic knowledge, [like] “This is probably true given the evidence”. This is
much weaker than proof.
https://www.ncchpp.ca/docs/Weinstock_Evidence_Ang.pdf
Also:
For my own part, I think that if one were looking for a single phrase to capture the stage to which philosophy has progressed, ‘the study of evidence’ would be a better choice than ‘the study of language’.
—A.J. Ayer, Philosophy in the Twentieth Century
8-)

User avatar
lzzrdgrrl
Posts: 1028
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:18 pm
Location: Okie Doke

Re: He just out and says it.......

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:40 am

My opinion FWIW is that truth is irrelevant if not attached to some subject, goal or ultimate end and that is the subject and purview of philosophy. Science is that business where a proposition or a conceptual model - often called a theory, is subject to a process called the scientific method by which every attempt is made to falsify it if possible. Science is not concerned with truth or purpose, it is concerned with countering self deception.........
I'm not a midwit, I'm a demiderp. Says so on the certificate which I just bought.....'>....

User avatar
neverfail
Posts: 8614
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Australia

Re: He just out and says it.......

Post by neverfail » Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:45 pm

There are many streams of philosophy but science is governed by only one of them - the EMPHIRICAL method of thinking. A real scientist (as distinct to a quack) uses the emphirical method of data collection and analysis in order to draw his conclusions.

English Common Law employs the same structure of logic. In a court trial in order to judge the accused guilty the jurors are usually briefed beforehand that circumstantal evidence and/or testiminy is insufficient; instead look for proof of culpibility or else pass the acquital verdict.

User avatar
SteveFoerster
Posts: 3526
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Probably DCA, YYJ, or DOM
Contact:

Re: He just out and says it.......

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:18 pm

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:40 am
My opinion FWIW is that truth is irrelevant if not attached to some subject, goal or ultimate end and that is the subject and purview of philosophy. Science is that business where a proposition or a conceptual model - often called a theory, is subject to a process called the scientific method by which every attempt is made to falsify it if possible. Science is not concerned with truth or purpose, it is concerned with countering self deception.........
Emotion tells us what our goals are, reason tells us how to reach them.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 6962
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: He just out and says it.......

Post by Doc » Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:32 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:18 pm
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:40 am
My opinion FWIW is that truth is irrelevant if not attached to some subject, goal or ultimate end and that is the subject and purview of philosophy. Science is that business where a proposition or a conceptual model - often called a theory, is subject to a process called the scientific method by which every attempt is made to falsify it if possible. Science is not concerned with truth or purpose, it is concerned with countering self deception.........
Emotion tells us what our goals are, reason tells us how to reach them.
There are 4 goals Food, Sex, Shelter, and Survival in general. Probably in that order.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

User avatar
SteveFoerster
Posts: 3526
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Probably DCA, YYJ, or DOM
Contact:

Re: He just out and says it.......

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:10 am

Doc wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:32 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:18 pm
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:40 am
My opinion FWIW is that truth is irrelevant if not attached to some subject, goal or ultimate end and that is the subject and purview of philosophy. Science is that business where a proposition or a conceptual model - often called a theory, is subject to a process called the scientific method by which every attempt is made to falsify it if possible. Science is not concerned with truth or purpose, it is concerned with countering self deception.........
Emotion tells us what our goals are, reason tells us how to reach them.
There are 4 goals Food, Sex, Shelter, and Survival in general. Probably in that order.
For rabbits, perhaps, but humans are a bit more complex, even if one can shoehorn most of our interests into one of those four categories.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 6962
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: He just out and says it.......

Post by Doc » Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:05 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:10 am
Doc wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:32 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:18 pm
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:40 am
My opinion FWIW is that truth is irrelevant if not attached to some subject, goal or ultimate end and that is the subject and purview of philosophy. Science is that business where a proposition or a conceptual model - often called a theory, is subject to a process called the scientific method by which every attempt is made to falsify it if possible. Science is not concerned with truth or purpose, it is concerned with countering self deception.........
Emotion tells us what our goals are, reason tells us how to reach them.
There are 4 goals Food, Sex, Shelter, and Survival in general. Probably in that order.
For rabbits, perhaps, but humans are a bit more complex, even if one can shoehorn most of our interests into one of those four categories.
I am talking basics Steve. A twenty year old make thinks about sex every 20 minutes on average. (or is it every 20 seconds) Either way in this case it would seem pretty important.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

Post Reply