Caroline Glick

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neverfail
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Re: Caroline Glick

Post by neverfail » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:07 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:29 pm

Had you bothered to read Glick's article, you would have discovered that the "Jewish controlled" news media are generally supportive of left-wing interests, which as she points out are in opposition to Republican (including POTUS) support for Israel.
I read it Jim. Despite being allegedly supportive of "left-wing interests" (whatever that is supposed to mean) have any of them ever published a word damning either the state of Israel or US support for it? I doubt it!

neverfail
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Re: Caroline Glick

Post by neverfail » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:53 am

dagbay wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:58 pm

I believe that the events of WWII had a supportive impact on the said UN resolution no more. I also tend to agree that in today's UN political setting it might be harder to pass a similar resolution. However the rest of your assumptions and attributed influence are unrealistic and come from a mindset that was cultivated in a world which has the specific history.
I find the comments about martyrdom of 6M Jews distasteful.
When I read that the question that immediately popped into my mind was why? There are cultures and religious traditions that consider martyrdom as glorious. I myself identify with a religion that was founded by a martyr; and so for this reason (without craving to become one myself ;) ) probably find the concept of glorious martyrdom easier to accept. My way of attempting to reassure you that those 6 million did not die in vain.
dagbay wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:58 pm
Specifically the Resettlement of Israel movement can be traced in the protocols of the Jewish congress. UN Resolution 181 did not materialize out of thin air or pity of the than members of the UN. The case for the establishment of a Jewish national state was in the making more than 60 years prior to that resolution. The UK who controlled the land had been approached legally already in the late 1800's and various legal claims have gone through in Turkey during the Ottoman period ( did you know for example that Jewish organizations procured with existing deeds vast land areas in the south modern Syria the Golan heights in preparation for resettlement) and later in the UK. I will mention the supportive Declaration by Lord Balfour. But there were other legal moves that set the stage for the resolution of 1947.
Yes Dagbay, I am aware that the Zionist movement was not collectively sitting around on their bums twiddling their thumbs all that time but that Jewish settlements were being founded even while the Ottomon Turks ruled. However, I still hold to the view that all of that preamble would have come to nought had it not been for the prevailing mood among the victorious Western powers; a spirit of winners' magnanimity combined with revulsion against raw memory of the Nazi death camps, that saw the majority vote in the UN General Assembly recommending (not compelling) the formation of the State of Israel.

By the way: the Balfour Declaration, which contradicted other commitments already made by the British government at the time, was originally not a public declaration at all but a private reassurance sent in a letter from one English gentleman Lord Balfour, a British cabinet minister, to Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild (of Tring), a leader of British Jewry. Unfortunately, the recipient was no gentleman. He had the letter published thus turning a private reassurance into a public declaration of intent.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Balfour-Declaration

Furthermore:
The declaration specifically stipulated that “nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.” The document, however, said nothing of the political or national rights of these communities and did not refer to them by name.
The document did not promise a sovereign Jewish state.

For the Zionist movement of the time it must have served as an opportunistic bit of chutzpah to promote the movement's agenda.
dagbay wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:58 pm
I'm not sure what is the source of your disappointment with the course of history, but Jews remember each and every slain Jew weather during the Holocaust or in the past 70 years. It is inconsiderable for Jews to justify human sacrifice such as you proposed even on an individual level let alone 6M. Jews belive that life is precious and that every soule is as precious as a whole world.
I am sure that Jewish people morn their dead just as you say. But while I cannot tag you as an official spokesman for Judaism as a corporate whole, your remarks lend further support my previous view that Jewish culture does not incorporate the veneration of martyrs.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Caroline Glick

Post by Jim the Moron » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:39 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:07 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:29 pm

Had you bothered to read Glick's article, you would have discovered that the "Jewish controlled" news media are generally supportive of left-wing interests, which as she points out are in opposition to Republican (including POTUS) support for Israel.
I read it Jim. Despite being allegedly supportive of "left-wing interests" (whatever that is supposed to mean) have any of them ever published a word damning either the state of Israel or US support for it? I doubt it!
n'fail - suggest you scroll down to the final paragraphs of Glick's column - under the heading "The liberal Jewish leadership's to pretend away progressive anti-Semitism." Or google up NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN, or any other of your "Jewish controlled" US news media. You can tack on "Israel" and "Al Sharpton," "Ilhan Omar," and "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez" in your diligent search efforts.

Good luck in your efforts to understand what is happening as the American left lemmings plunge more and more towards the progressive cliff.

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dagbay
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Re: Caroline Glick

Post by dagbay » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:29 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:39 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:07 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:29 pm

Had you bothered to read Glick's article, you would have discovered that the "Jewish controlled" news media are generally supportive of left-wing interests, which as she points out are in opposition to Republican (including POTUS) support for Israel.
I read it Jim. Despite being allegedly supportive of "left-wing interests" (whatever that is supposed to mean) have any of them ever published a word damning either the state of Israel or US support for it? I doubt it!
n'fail - suggest you scroll down to the final paragraphs of Glick's column - under the heading "The liberal Jewish leadership's to pretend away progressive anti-Semitism." Or google up NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN, or any other of your "Jewish controlled" US news media. You can tack on "Israel" and "Al Sharpton," "Ilhan Omar," and "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez" in your diligent search efforts.

Good luck in your efforts to understand what is happening as the American left lemmings plunge more and more towards the progressive cliff.
And I'd you do please enlighten us too. I for one have been trying to understand the US left suicide act for a nuber of years predating the 2016 elections.
And right, Jews as a culture do not glorify any death of any human being or a fetus. That doe not mean that individuals do not find solace if someone(s) else's life was saved on account of that death.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

neverfail
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Re: Caroline Glick

Post by neverfail » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:04 am

I would rather abstain from commenting until somebody can satisfactorily explain to me just what this American 'left" is supposed to be about. I had previously thought that over there you only had right wing and righter.

As for Ms Glick's essay; so dense and turgid I can make neither head not tail of it.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Caroline Glick

Post by Jim the Moron » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:23 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:04 am
I would rather abstain from commenting until somebody can satisfactorily explain to me just what this American 'left" is supposed to be about. I had previously thought that over there you only had right wing and righter.

As for Ms Glick's essay; so dense and turgid I can make neither head not tail of it.
A wise decision on your part, neverfail. Abstaining from commenting on matters you obviously know nothing about (e.g. US politics) saves everyone time.

neverfail
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Re: Caroline Glick

Post by neverfail » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:20 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:23 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:04 am
I would rather abstain from commenting until somebody can satisfactorily explain to me just what this American 'left" is supposed to be about. I had previously thought that over there you only had right wing and righter.

As for Ms Glick's essay; so dense and turgid I can make neither head not tail of it.
A wise decision on your part, neverfail. Abstaining from commenting on matters you obviously know nothing about (e.g. US politics) saves everyone time.
I know something about US politics but when the conversation veers into nebulous talk about "left wing" and " right wing" it leaves me cold.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Caroline Glick

Post by Jim the Moron » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:59 am

"Trump did not betray the Kurds"
https://israelhayom.com/opinions/trump- ... the-kurds/

"The Kurds are a tragic people. The Kurds, who live as persecuted minorities in Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran, have been denied the right of self-determination for the past hundred years. But then, the Kurds have squandered every opportunity they have had to assert independence."

neverfail
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Re: Caroline Glick does not click with me.

Post by neverfail » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:32 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:59 am
"Trump did not betray the Kurds"
://israelhayom.com/opinions/trump-did-not-betray-the-kurds/
The US has neither major influence in Syria nor an interest in confronting Turkey to protect the Kurds. Trump avoided war with Turkey this week and began extracting America from an open-ended commitment to the Kurds it never made.
- C Glick

The US for years used the Kurds to crush ISIS (supported by America's great and glorious ally, Turkey's Erdoğan) then all of a sudden infant boy wonder Trump then pulls the plug on them. If that does not constitute betrayal then I wonder what does.

It was presence of those handful of US troops in northern Syria who were deterring Erdoğan from sending his own armed forces into a blitzkrieg into the region in the first place. Those American soldiers could have been left there indefinitely and would have come to no harm.

Morally the United states had an open-ended commitment to the Kurds. It made that commitment from the very moment it first began to use the Kurds to do its fighting for it against ISIS in Syria. Hiding behind legalisms such as we have no formal treaty with the Kurds does not alter that one iota.

Of course Jewish American turned Jewish Israeli pundit Caroline Click glosses over all of this in her above propaganda piece that attempts to defend the indefensible. Trump's outrageous policy initiative.

When in recent memory was the US ever in any danger of going to war with Turkey? Glick's allegation is sheer arrant bullshit!
........................................................................................................................................

The implications of the Trump betrayal of the Kurds go far beyond the Middle East:

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/artic ... oned-next/
Trump to Asian allies: You may be abandoned next

National security has always been a ringing issue in Australia, a vast country with a small population that has constantly felt itself vulnerable to invasion from the north. That vulnerability has intensified as China has become an expansionist power reaching down into Southeast Asia.

As insurance, successive Canberra governments have been swift to bolster their defense treaty with Washington by being among the first to sign up for American wars. Australians have fought alongside Americans in every major US military action since the Second World War, including Korea, Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, Somalia, East Timor, Afghanistan and Iraq.

The message from the Kurdish region of northern Syria, however, is that generations of dead and wounded Australian comrades may not be enough to secure the loyalty of this US president as Canberra contemplates an increasingly complex relationship with Beijing.

This has generated a debate in the last few days on the Australian political stage and in the media. The grudging verdict so far is that, as with Japan, the US-Australian alliance is far too deep and broad to be upended by the manias of one shambolic American president.

But a degree of uncertainty remains, and that is intensified by the common view gelling across Asia that any risk assessment must assume Trump will be re-elected in 2020 for another four years.
I have deleted the sizable portion of this article (above) that refers to the impact on two other US allies, Japan and South Korea in order to concentrate my (and your) attention on the impact of the Asia-Pacific country closest to my heart.

If the many lives of Kurdish fighters sacrificed to extinguish ISIS in Syria mean absolutely nothing to Trump then the implication follows that the lives of all of those Aussie diggers lost in Korea, Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq would mean nothing to him either.

Americans: get rid of this disgraceful rogue president of yours before he does even more harm abroad.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Caroline Glick

Post by Jim the Moron » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:52 am

Next time you post here in this thread please make an effort to comprehend Ms Glick's commentary, which you refused to link. She was not necessarily defending Pres Trump's actions in the ME. She pointed out the blundering ME policies of previous administrations.

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