China’s enemy is itself.

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neverfail
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Re: China’s enemy is itself.

Post by neverfail » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:16 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:03 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:54 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:21 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:28 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:29 pm

Yes, O'Neill's comments on China's economy appeared in a Chinese paper. I didn't realize that that constituted grounds for dismissing them. I'll keep that in mind the next time I see comments on Australia's economy in Australian papers.
We have a free press. The PRC does not!
And your point is . . .?
The ruling party in China allows to be published only what it wants you to know (or more often what it wants its subject peoples to believe). In Australia, the media publishes what government and Opposition alike would probably rather keep to themselves.
That may be true, but what that have to do with dismissing O'Neill's commentary?
If the bigwigs in Beijing approve of it then does not that make it at least suspect?

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SteveFoerster
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Re: China’s enemy is itself.

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:39 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:29 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:09 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:13 am
lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:23 pm
One day we'll own the world....

Image
"Vision China: Jim O'Neill comments on China's economy"
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201809/1 ... 5593d.html

China rising.
Well, of course a publication like the China Daily would publish something like this supportive of PRC government policy.
Yes, O'Neill's comments on China's economy appeared in a Chinese paper. I didn't realize that that constituted grounds for dismissing them. I'll keep that in mind the next time I see comments on Australia's economy in Australian papers.
Did you and Sertorio switch accounts or something? China Daily is literally owned and run by the Communist Party of China, there's no way to take it seriously as an objective news source. The equivalent in Australia wouldn't be a newspaper, it would be the PM's spokesperson.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

Jim the Moron
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Re: China’s enemy is itself.

Post by Jim the Moron » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:52 pm

Sorry, gentlemen, but whatever vehicle Jim O'Neill chooses to place his commentary in suits me just fine.

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Milo
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Re: China’s enemy is itself.

Post by Milo » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:17 am

However, that China is its own worst enemy is grounded in recent history. China since the 19th century has been marked by change followed by mass slaughter.

Someday, who knows when, the Chinese will want more human rights than they now have. It remains to be seen what will come of that.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: China’s enemy is itself.

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:42 am

Milo wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:17 am
However, that China is its own worst enemy is grounded in recent history. China since the 19th century has been marked by change followed by mass slaughter.

Someday, who knows when, the Chinese will want more human rights than they now have. It remains to be seen what will come of that.
Perhaps someday, but given that Winnie-the-Pooh is now President-for-life, that bodes poorly for their prospects in that regard.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Milo
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Re: China’s enemy is itself.

Post by Milo » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:56 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:42 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:17 am
However, that China is its own worst enemy is grounded in recent history. China since the 19th century has been marked by change followed by mass slaughter.

Someday, who knows when, the Chinese will want more human rights than they now have. It remains to be seen what will come of that.
Perhaps someday, but given that Winnie-the-Pooh is now President-for-life, that bodes poorly for their prospects in that regard.
Pu yi was emperor for life and look how that turned out!

But I largely agree with you, which is why I said "who knows when".

The Chinese experiment in granting almost no human rights, and precious few civil ones, is an amazing success,it clearly shows that what most people really want is prosperity, not freedom.

Still I firmly believe there are serious limits to prosperity without freedom and we will see those limits in China one of these days.

And dear God let it be so, or we will inevitably lose our freedom!

neverfail
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Re: China’s enemy is itself.

Post by neverfail » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:00 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:42 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:17 am
However, that China is its own worst enemy is grounded in recent history. China since the 19th century has been marked by change followed by mass slaughter.

Someday, who knows when, the Chinese will want more human rights than they now have. It remains to be seen what will come of that.
Perhaps someday, but given that Winnie-the-Pooh is now President-for-life, that bodes poorly for their prospects in that regard.
Pu yi was emperor for life and look how that turned out!
Pu Yi never held the powers of an Emperor. He spent most of his life as pretender to a throne that was abolished soon after he became the child-emperor.
The Chinese experiment in granting almost no human rights, and precious few civil ones, is an amazing success,it clearly shows that what most people really want is prosperity, not freedom.
Human rights and most civil rights have to be wrested from a regime like that - they are never granted by the rulers. The struggle to gain these would not be for armchair liberals or the faint hearted. Considering the regime has already demonstrated its propensity to use violence to quell all opposition, most people have opted to take the easy way out.

Apart from which China is an imperial state that is the way it is because you cannot stop it from disintegrating except by applied force. If the Kuomintang had won the Chinese civil war instead of the Communists it would have made no difference. I doubt whether there is a government in Asia that would place human rights ahead of national unity.
Still I firmly believe there are serious limits to prosperity without freedom and we will see those limits in China one of these days.
So do I. But in the case of China please don't hold your breath.
And dear God let it be so, or we will inevitably lose our freedom!
You (along with others of your kind) will only lose your freedom when you cease to treasure it - not because they lack it in a foreign land on a distant continent.

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