Bones found in Mexican cave

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Jim the Moron
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Bones found in Mexican cave

Post by Jim the Moron » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:52 am

Neat stuff . . .

"Ancient human remains, Ice Age animal bones found in giant Mexican cave"
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexi ... SKCN1G40V3

"Without a doubt it's the most important underwater archaeological site in the world."

neverfail
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Re: Bones found in Mexican cave

Post by neverfail » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:23 am

Only 9,000 years old?

Barely the day before yesterday in human prehistory.

Jim, I am not knocking the importance of this discovery, but I get the impression that human occupancy in the Americas is considerably more recent than in my own corner of the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Mungo_remains

(quote) Mungo man (LM3), whose remains were discovered in 1974, is believed to have lived between 40,000 and 68,000 years ago during the Pleistocene epoch and his are the oldest human remains found in Australia.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Bones found in Mexican cave

Post by Jim the Moron » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:36 am

You are quite correct, neverfail. But you have been aced out - Eurasia had humans long before Australia.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Bones found in Mexican cave

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:30 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:36 am
You are quite correct, neverfail. But you have been aced out - Eurasia had humans long before Australia.
Well sure, how else could they have gotten there? But it's still interesting that humans settled Australia as long as 60,000 years before they got to the Americas.
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neverfail
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Re: Bones found in Mexican cave

Post by neverfail » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:26 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:30 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:36 am
You are quite correct, neverfail. But you have been aced out - Eurasia had humans long before Australia.
Well sure, how else could they have gotten there? But it's still interesting that humans settled Australia as long as 60,000 years before they got to the Americas.
Too right Steve. But what a twin continent the indigenous Americans got once they belatedly took over it.

The difference seems to have been like this. The ancestors of the Australian aboriginals must have been paleolithic just like the rest of humankind at the time because it was in that state that the indigenous Australians remained until the British colonisers arrived late in the 18th century. By contrast the indigenous Americans, though their progress varied radically from one part to another, were all post-paleolithic by the time Columbus arrived. Indeed, in the Andes Mountains region of South America the Indians had approx. 2,000 years of experience as a bronze age civilisation. In Mexico they were apparently neolithic farmers for as long as their peers in the Middle East. Whilst the Aztecs and other Mexican city-states had attained only the age of ductile metals (copper, silver, copper) by the time the Spanish arrived and therefore fell short of the bronze age peak attained in Peru and Bolivia; it still put them way ahead of our Australian aboriginals.

I am not knocking our Australian indigenous by noting this apparent long prehistory of vegetating within the fastness of their adopted land. This arid island continent offered few corners where neolithic agriculture could have been successful even if it has by chance been introduced here. For the rest of it though I believe that the indigenous Americans were helped along by the fact that their first arrival ancestors were very likely neolithic and therefore started out in the Americas "on a higher plane": reflecting the transformation of the lot of humankind that must have been occuring in Eurasia at the time.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Bones found in Mexican cave

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:12 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:26 pm
Whilst the Aztecs and other Mexican city-states had attained only the age of ductile metals (copper, silver, copper) by the time the Spanish arrived and therefore fell short of the bronze age peak attained in Peru and Bolivia; it still put them way ahead of our Australian aboriginals.
The Mesoamericans independently developed writing (a feat matched only by the Sumerians and Chinese), mathematics (including the zero!), and a sophisticated understanding of astronomy. I'm not sure it's fair to characterise them as having fallen short of the Incas solely on the basis of metallurgy.
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Milo
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Re: Bones found in Mexican cave

Post by Milo » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:47 pm

No discussion like this is complete without a shoutout to "Guns Germs and Steel".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

It's the Grand Unified Theory of History.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Bones found in Mexican cave

Post by Jim the Moron » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:36 am

Nice to see a reference to the thoughts of Jared Diamond. One thing about him - besides being an imaginative scientist, he can write with style. Wonder if some of his detractors who pick at his writings may be reflecting some resentment towards Diamond's abilities as a writer, similar to the detractors of Stephen Jay Gould some years back.

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