Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

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lzzrdgrrl
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Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:47 am

......not a technology, but a desperate and hysterical religious response:



Technological advance is responsible for extending human lives, reducing the drudgery of toil and multiplying productivity and efficiency at least a thousandfold. It is part of the project of the revaluation of all values. It is also intended to alleviate the human predicament...... which is turning out to mean avoiding the need to think about difficult things or take responsibility for them, instead......

Now, perimeter barrier shields up......;)..........
Let's try this modelling exercise. Let's envision a world in a parallel universe somewhere let's say, where I'm right.........

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Milo
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

Post by Milo » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:00 pm

lzzrdgrrl wrote:......not a technology, but a desperate and hysterical religious response:



Technological advance is responsible for extending human lives, reducing the drudgery of toil and multiplying productivity and efficiency at least a thousandfold. It is part of the project of the revaluation of all values. It is also intended to alleviate the human predicament...... which is turning out to mean avoiding the need to think about difficult things or take responsibility for them, instead......

Now, perimeter barrier shields up......;)..........
Nobody knows, but here's what I think.

AI is not a matter of software so much as a matter of hardware. I believe that the the human brain is simply 'fast idiots' on a scale we are unable to duplicate yet. Once we can create a pile of transistors that roughly equal the complexity of the human brain, we can create AI.

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:28 pm

That' sorta like:



The real problem is that we're only beginning to understand what consciousness is and how much of what we call thinking has so little to do with it. Neurologists suggest that we use about half our brains in order to see and even then we ignore almost all of the potential data available to our senses. The secret is to know what data is pertinent to the situation that presents itself at the time, and we don't have an inkling on how that gets done, let alone how to do it properly. Technologists will have to work with neurologists and developmental psychologists in order to present AI - and they can't even understand each other yet......'>......
Let's try this modelling exercise. Let's envision a world in a parallel universe somewhere let's say, where I'm right.........

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:32 pm

I think intelligence, as such, matters less than consciousness, but that we'll never really know how consciousness really exists.
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Doc
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

Post by Doc » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:54 pm

Milo wrote:
lzzrdgrrl wrote:......not a technology, but a desperate and hysterical religious response:



Technological advance is responsible for extending human lives, reducing the drudgery of toil and multiplying productivity and efficiency at least a thousandfold. It is part of the project of the revaluation of all values. It is also intended to alleviate the human predicament...... which is turning out to mean avoiding the need to think about difficult things or take responsibility for them, instead......

Now, perimeter barrier shields up......;)..........
Nobody knows, but here's what I think.

AI is not a matter of software so much as a matter of hardware. I believe that the the human brain is simply 'fast idiots' on a scale we are unable to duplicate yet. Once we can create a pile of transistors that roughly equal the complexity of the human brain, we can create AI.
1) I agree about the Watson computer and other PR stunts.

2) AI has a long history of being on the verge of a major breakthrough

3) "the human brain processes in parallel and scientists have no idea as to how it does that"

Lost me right there. Not only do scientist know how parallel processing works Mutli core processors do just that. That is why they are called multi-core processors If you are using a PC you most likely using one at the very moment you are reading this. It uses the multi-cores in parallel.

4) Visual differences. This guy seems to think that AI has to be in humanoid form or it is not intelligent. I suppose I could make an argument that humans aren't at all intelligent because dogs sense of smell is 500 times greater than humans. His argument is just not the way it works.

Not to mention there are image sensors out there that actually do process images in parallel. Not just sequentially as this guy seems to be hung up on.

5) Human brains run in parallel at around 3 kilohertz Computers can run in gigahertz and do. (See number 3 above). It is just a matter of how many processors you use. I don't know of a single modern supercomputer that uses a single sequential processor. The difference is so great that there isn't much of a problem simulating in real time parallel process in a sequential sequence that comes in at a speed much higher than humans parallel process.. Processing in binary digital bits is something of an issue since a limited set of variation in values can be directly represented in individual bytes. But that is just a matter of computing speed. Any implementation of an algorithm will be greater the bigger the number of bits in a byte.

6) It is true that we do not understand how our own brains do many things. Our thought processing is the result of billions of year of evolutionary learning. However this guy is assuming that Artificial intelligence has to do exactly what humans do. Which is complete nonsense except perhaps if you are looking to make sex robots. Automation is not just about humanoid robots interacting with individual humans. It is about interfacing with the world to perform tasks that are useful to humans in general. New semiconductor fabs for example are now nearly completely automated. Little need for "dirty" contaminate covered humans to be in the clean rooms other to to oversee what is going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2KcZGwntgg

7) The current round of automation, popularly called artificial intelligence.is more than anything else about machine algorithms that are able to learn. Outside of mechanical hardware as is mentioned by Milo above the learning curve for algorithms is already much steeper than it is for humans(who learn as well) as computers start as inert boxes until the software is installed VS millions of years of pre-programmed evolution of humans. But computers are so much faster can work 24 hours per day so learning is only a function of how good of a learning algorithms it is given.

http://machinelearningmastery.com/a-tou ... lgorithms/
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:53 pm

SteveForester wrote:5) Human brains run in parallel at around 3 kilohertz Computers can run in gigahertz and do. (See number 3 above). It is just a matter of how many processors you use. I don't know of a single modern supercomputer that uses a single sequential processor. The difference is so great that there isn't much of a problem simulating in real time parallel process in a sequential sequence that comes in at a speed much higher than humans parallel process.. Processing in binary digital bits is something of an issue since a limited set of variation in values can be directly represented in individual bytes. But that is just a matter of computing speed. Any implementation of an algorithm will be greater the bigger the number of bits in a byte.
The vacuum channel transistor which can operate in the terahertz range (just below infra red light) with less tendency toward electron scattering between elements might effect this:
This invention presents a nanoscale vacuum tube or vacuum transistor fabricated entirely using current silicon integrated circuit manufacturing techniques. Vacuum is better for electron transport than any semiconductor since there is no electron scattering. In addition, vacuum devices are immune to radiation. Nevertheless, vacuum devices lost out to silicon devices due to ease of large-scale manufacturing, robustness, versatility, and low cost. Here, the best of vacuum and silicon technologies are combined to produce nanoscale vacuum transistors that are amenable to large wafer fabrication and are inexpensive, while providing exceptional performance.
http://www.techbriefs.com/component/con ... ters/22187

http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors ... of-nothing

Plus to me, it just looks more like a brain synapse.......'>.......
Let's try this modelling exercise. Let's envision a world in a parallel universe somewhere let's say, where I'm right.........

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Doc
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

Post by Doc » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:25 pm

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
SteveForester wrote:5) Human brains run in parallel at around 3 kilohertz Computers can run in gigahertz and do. (See number 3 above). It is just a matter of how many processors you use. I don't know of a single modern supercomputer that uses a single sequential processor. The difference is so great that there isn't much of a problem simulating in real time parallel process in a sequential sequence that comes in at a speed much higher than humans parallel process.. Processing in binary digital bits is something of an issue since a limited set of variation in values can be directly represented in individual bytes. But that is just a matter of computing speed. Any implementation of an algorithm will be greater the bigger the number of bits in a byte.
The vacuum channel transistor which can operate in the terahertz range (just below infra red light) with less tendency toward electron scattering between elements might effect this:
This invention presents a nanoscale vacuum tube or vacuum transistor fabricated entirely using current silicon integrated circuit manufacturing techniques. Vacuum is better for electron transport than any semiconductor since there is no electron scattering. In addition, vacuum devices are immune to radiation. Nevertheless, vacuum devices lost out to silicon devices due to ease of large-scale manufacturing, robustness, versatility, and low cost. Here, the best of vacuum and silicon technologies are combined to produce nanoscale vacuum transistors that are amenable to large wafer fabrication and are inexpensive, while providing exceptional performance.
http://www.techbriefs.com/component/con ... ters/22187

http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors ... of-nothing
And it kept breaking down all the time, with a tube failing every day or two.
More like 10 ten tubes failing every day. My father used to sell tube bake int eh 1950's and 60's one customer was a local college that contracted him to deliver 300 tubes per month. The computer was built in "modules" so whole sections could be swapped out instead of looking for the bad tube and replacing it with the computer down the whole time.
Plus to me, it just looks more like a brain synapse.......'>.......
This is interesting at least 35 years ago, the same guy that introduced Tesla, told me that he believed that transistors in a vacuum would preform much better. I was so impressed with Tesla and thought it such a shame that Tesla was forgotten, at the time, that I bought several copies of books about him and gave them to people that I thought would be interested.

The guy knew about all kinds of technical things like this.
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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Milo
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

Post by Milo » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:49 am

AI program beats humans in poker game

The matches - held at Rivers Casino in Pittsburgh - were live-streamed over gaming site Twitch.
Tuomas Sandholm, professor of computer science at Carnegie Mellon, said the event was "historic".
"Heads-up no limit Texas hold 'em is in a way the last frontier of all the games," he said.
"Othello, Chess, Go, Jeopardy have all been conquered, but this remained elusive: this is a landmark in AI game-play."
Prof Sandholm said that the algorithm could be transferred to a range of other uses.
"This is not just about poker," he said.
"The algorithms can take information and output a strategy in a range of scenarios, including negotiations, finance, medical treatment and cybersecurity."
"Now we have proven the ability of AI to do strategy and reasoning, there are many potential applications in future."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38812530

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:06 am

Milo wrote:"Now we have proven the ability of AI to do strategy and reasoning, there are many potential applications in future."
I just hope our machine overlords will see us as pets rather than vermin.
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Milo
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, not a science.......

Post by Milo » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:57 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Milo wrote:"Now we have proven the ability of AI to do strategy and reasoning, there are many potential applications in future."
I just hope our machine overlords will see us as pets rather than vermin.
I am sure they already do:

http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html

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