Neverfail, this might interest you

High Culture, Religion, Philosophy and Esoterica.
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Milo
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Re: Neverfail, this might interest you

Post by Milo » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:56 pm

It is plain and obvious that the Roman Catholic Church has appointed many gay clergy, including Bishops.

neverfail
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Re: Neverfail, this might interest you

Post by neverfail » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:43 pm

Milo wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:56 pm
It is plain and obvious that the Roman Catholic Church has appointed many gay clergy, including Bishops.
Correct! But not OPENLY gay ones. That is the difference. Some minnows (as I explained above to Cassowary) manage to slip through the net.

Being a Catholic priest, bishop, archbishop-cardinal or even the Pope himself has never been enough by itself to transform a sinner into a saint. Sometimes, a penchant for a particular kind of sinfulness does not make itself evident until years after the individual has been ordained a priest.

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Milo
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Re: Neverfail, this might interest you

Post by Milo » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:24 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:43 pm
Milo wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:56 pm
It is plain and obvious that the Roman Catholic Church has appointed many gay clergy, including Bishops.
Correct! But not OPENLY gay ones. That is the difference. Some minnows (as I explained above to Cassowary) manage to slip through the net.

Being a Catholic priest, bishop, archbishop-cardinal or even the Pope himself has never been enough by itself to transform a sinner into a saint. Sometimes, a penchant for a particular kind of sinfulness does not make itself evident until years after the individual has been ordained a priest.
So, you prefer that people do not confess their sin?

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Re: Neverfail, this might interest you

Post by neverfail » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:14 am

Milo wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:24 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:43 pm
Milo wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:56 pm
It is plain and obvious that the Roman Catholic Church has appointed many gay clergy, including Bishops.
Correct! But not OPENLY gay ones. That is the difference. Some minnows (as I explained above to Cassowary) manage to slip through the net.

Being a Catholic priest, bishop, archbishop-cardinal or even the Pope himself has never been enough by itself to transform a sinner into a saint. Sometimes, a penchant for a particular kind of sinfulness does not make itself evident until years after the individual has been ordained a priest.
So, you prefer that people do not confess their sin?
NOT my preference Milo. Some feel safer keeping theirs well hidden.

Confession might (as they say) be good for the soul but it is not good for the reputation.

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Milo
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Re: Neverfail, this might interest you

Post by Milo » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:26 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:14 am
Milo wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:24 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:43 pm
Milo wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:56 pm
It is plain and obvious that the Roman Catholic Church has appointed many gay clergy, including Bishops.
Correct! But not OPENLY gay ones. That is the difference. Some minnows (as I explained above to Cassowary) manage to slip through the net.

Being a Catholic priest, bishop, archbishop-cardinal or even the Pope himself has never been enough by itself to transform a sinner into a saint. Sometimes, a penchant for a particular kind of sinfulness does not make itself evident until years after the individual has been ordained a priest.
So, you prefer that people do not confess their sin?
NOT my preference Milo. Some feel safer keeping theirs well hidden.

Confession might (as they say) be good for the soul but it is not good for the reputation.
In my view either homosexuality is a sin or not.

If it is, then we should love the sinner and draw them to our table.

If it is not, then it's not a problem having homosexuals in the church.

Either way, excluding homosexuals from ministry makes no sense.

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Milo
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Re: Neverfail, this might interest you

Post by Milo » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:28 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:30 am
It's worth noting that it's the Episcopalian Church in the U.S. that's in communion with Canterbury, and the breakaway "Continuing Anglican" Church that's caused a schism, and one with rather hard feelings as the Episcopalian Church has denied breakaway Continuing Anglicans the use of what had been their church buildings, etc.

I've heard the Methodists in the U.S. are on track to have a schism over the same issues of social conservatism, although in light of the Episcopalian example they're trying to divorce amicably.
The law is clear: if you don't like a charity that you donated to, you don't get your money back.

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Re: Neverfail, this might interest you

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:38 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:28 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:30 am
It's worth noting that it's the Episcopalian Church in the U.S. that's in communion with Canterbury, and the breakaway "Continuing Anglican" Church that's caused a schism, and one with rather hard feelings as the Episcopalian Church has denied breakaway Continuing Anglicans the use of what had been their church buildings, etc.

I've heard the Methodists in the U.S. are on track to have a schism over the same issues of social conservatism, although in light of the Episcopalian example they're trying to divorce amicably.
The law is clear: if you don't like a charity that you donated to, you don't get your money back.
That may be, but as G.K. Chesterton remarked, "To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it."
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

neverfail
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Re: the virtue of abstinence.

Post by neverfail » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:05 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:26 am

In my view either homosexuality is a sin or not.

If it is, then we should love the sinner and draw them to our table.

If it is not, then it's not a problem having homosexuals in the church.

Either way, excluding homosexuals from ministry makes no sense.
Good point, Milo! A very good point actually.

Jesus Christ, acting on behalf of his heavenly father, absolved the serial adulterous Mary Magdalen of hers. I would take that as a clear indication that Christ himself would likewise want to love the sinner and draw them to our table and likewise would want us to do so.

But Milo, a Catholic priest or any other sort of Christian minister is something of an authority figure in that he has really stepped right into the shoes of being a latter-day apostle of Jesus Christ (whereas we the laity are only like latter-day disciples) . Christ did not hesitate to ask his twelve chosen ones to make personal sacrifices for the privilege of undertake this specialised vocation. So in like manner I do not see why we cannot vest some higher expectations in our clergy.

I believe that is the logic behind the Catholic Church getting its priests to enter into mandatory vows of lifelong celibacy: as their special sacrifice and a permanent act of atonement for the sins of the world.

In the case of homosexual Catholic priests the solution is simple. Remain strictly faithful in adhering to your vows of priestly celibacy and (as Christ is reputed to have advised Mary Magdalen) "sin no more"!

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Milo
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Re: the virtue of abstinence.

Post by Milo » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:03 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:05 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:26 am

In my view either homosexuality is a sin or not.

If it is, then we should love the sinner and draw them to our table.

If it is not, then it's not a problem having homosexuals in the church.

Either way, excluding homosexuals from ministry makes no sense.
Good point, Milo! A very good point actually.

Jesus Christ, acting on behalf of his heavenly father, absolved the serial adulterous Mary Magdalen of hers. I would take that as a clear indication that Christ himself would likewise want to love the sinner and draw them to our table and likewise would want us to do so.

But Milo, a Catholic priest or any other sort of Christian minister is something of an authority figure in that he has really stepped right into the shoes of being a latter-day apostle of Jesus Christ (whereas we the laity are only like latter-day disciples) . Christ did not hesitate to ask his twelve chosen ones to make personal sacrifices for the privilege of undertake this specialised vocation. So in like manner I do not see why we cannot vest some higher expectations in our clergy.

I believe that is the logic behind the Catholic Church getting its priests to enter into mandatory vows of lifelong celibacy: as their special sacrifice and a permanent act of atonement for the sins of the world.

In the case of homosexual Catholic priests the solution is simple. Remain strictly faithful in adhering to your vows of priestly celibacy and (as Christ is reputed to have advised Mary Magdalen) "sin no more"!
In the RCC context that makes perfect sense.

Us Anglicans do not go in for the idea of "in persona Christi" and although we have celibate orders it is a voluntary choice that our priests make, few do.

So if an Anglican priest is gay it is not inherently a breach of their ministry, assuming they minister in one of the churches where we have changed the Cannons to allow it.

seekingfortruth
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Re: Neverfail, this might interest you

Post by seekingfortruth » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:14 am

To Neverfail
Jesus Christ, acting on behalf of his heavenly father, absolved the serial adulterous Mary Magdalen of hers
Mary Magdalene never was an adulterer, for she was a widow Jesus had freed from seven demons (Luke VIII, 2). Since the VIth century AD, a lot of Christians including the pope Gregory the great have confused her with others women of the New Testament such as the repentant sinner who anointed Jesus or the adulterous woman he saved from death. That's simply wrong.
For more information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magd ... iddle_Ages

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