The end of Work (?)

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Milo
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Milo » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:03 am

So, many are considering some sort of guaranteed income will be a good idea if, or even not if, most jobs dry up.

As all that history implies, basic income serves as a Rorschach test for your account of human nature. If given the chance, will people be as lazy as possible? Will they abandon work? Or will having security enable them to contribute, rather than take, from social resources? Are the poor impoverished because of their lack of effort and competence or because of systemic, even unconscious disadvantage? The problem is that large-scale, long-term, methodologically rigorous studies of basic income are yet to be done.

Still, the evidence that’s already out there looks good.

For the biggest study on basic income, University of Manitoba economist Evelyn Forget quite literally plucked data from the dustbin of history for her 2011 paper, “The Town With No Poverty.”

The origin story goes like this: From 1974 to 1979, national and provincial governments partnered to provide a minimum income to every eligible family in Dauphin, a prairie town with a present-day population of 8,000. The program’s name was MINCOME, as in minimum income. But halfway through the program, the party in power changed, funding dried up, and as Andrew Flowers noted in a deep dive on FiveThirtyEight, some 1,800 cardboard boxes of data were left to sit in Canada’s national archives until they could be later analyzed. Forget unearthed them, digitized the results, and compared them with records from Canada’s national health insurance, yielding a quasi-experimental, controlled design. The results: MINCOME participants had lower hospitalizations due to injuries and accidents compared to the control, and they also had fewer physician contacts for mental-health diagnoses. “These results would seem to suggest that a Guaranteed Annual Income, implemented broadly in society, may improve health and social outcomes at the community level,” Forget wrote in her conclusion.

The U.S. flirted with a sibling of basic income in the 1970s and 1980s, in the form of “negative income tax,” where people below a certain income threshold get money from the government instead of paying taxes. (Free-market evangelist Milton Friedman was a fan, Flowers reminds us.) Control studies ran from 1968 to 1980, ranging from rural studies in Iowa and North Carolina to urban ones in Seattle and Denver, which ran nine years and reached 4,800 people. Primary earners scaled back their hours by up to 7 percent, research indicated, while elementary schoolers did better on tests, and babies were less frequently born with low birth weights. Home ownership and healthy eating went up too. Then, in what became a cautionary tale for science writers everywhere, a statistical error led to a report that participating in the program led to a higher rate of divorce, and a media firestorm followed. The policy was quickly cast aside.

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/01/th ... book_nymag

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:55 am

As an aside, Milton Friedman may have been more free market than most during his time, but as a monetarist he advocated a lot more government intervention in the economy than his modern reputation suggests.
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Doc
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Doc » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:02 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:As an aside, Milton Friedman may have been more free market than most during his time, but as a monetarist he advocated a lot more government intervention in the economy than his modern reputation suggests.
Milton Friedman once visited a thrid world construction sight and saw a lot of men digging with shovels while at the edge of the site were numerous idle peices of digging equipment. He asked his host why they weren't using the digging equipment. The host said because were are creating jobs To which Friedman reply "Well then why don't you have them use spoons?"

So basically it goes. Except instead of using spoons it will be getting paid standing in lines, or sit at home waiting to die eventually from a meaningless life, or whatever it takes. Of course how much money people will get to enjoy that meaningless their meaningless lives, that don't have jobs will be determined by the people that pull the strings. Then comes the forced birth control, and one child polices that have worked so well in China to get rid of the "Excess Population"
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:59 pm

Doc wrote:
SteveFoerster wrote:As an aside, Milton Friedman may have been more free market than most during his time, but as a monetarist he advocated a lot more government intervention in the economy than his modern reputation suggests.
Milton Friedman once visited a thrid world construction sight and saw a lot of men digging with shovels while at the edge of the site were numerous idle peices of digging equipment. He asked his host why they weren't using the digging equipment. The host said because were are creating jobs To which Friedman reply "Well then why don't you have them use spoons?"

So basically it goes. Except instead of using spoons it will be getting paid standing in lines, or sit at home waiting to die eventually from a meaningless life, or whatever it takes. Of course how much money people will get to enjoy that meaningless their meaningless lives, that don't have jobs will be determined by the people that pull the strings.

It's called disability. There are now large parts of the U.S. where significant percentages of adults collect it, such that it's become a backdoor CBI:

http://rtc.ruralinstitute.umt.edu/rate- ... ity-rates/
Then comes the forced birth control, and one child polices that have worked so well in China to get rid of the "Excess Population"
No one is talking about doing this. Even the Chinese have backed off.
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President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Doc
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Doc » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:08 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Doc wrote:
SteveFoerster wrote:As an aside, Milton Friedman may have been more free market than most during his time, but as a monetarist he advocated a lot more government intervention in the economy than his modern reputation suggests.
Milton Friedman once visited a thrid world construction sight and saw a lot of men digging with shovels while at the edge of the site were numerous idle peices of digging equipment. He asked his host why they weren't using the digging equipment. The host said because were are creating jobs To which Friedman reply "Well then why don't you have them use spoons?"

So basically it goes. Except instead of using spoons it will be getting paid standing in lines, or sit at home waiting to die eventually from a meaningless life, or whatever it takes. Of course how much money people will get to enjoy that meaningless their meaningless lives, that don't have jobs will be determined by the people that pull the strings.

It's called disability. There are now large parts of the U.S. where significant percentages of adults collect it, such that it's become a backdoor CBI:

http://rtc.ruralinstitute.umt.edu/rate- ... ity-rates/
Then comes the forced birth control, and one child polices that have worked so well in China to get rid of the "Excess Population"
No one is talking about doing this. Even the Chinese have backed off.
No one is talking about this? People have been talking about doing exactly this for over 100 years. The Chinese have backed off because they realized that the problem with the one child policy(seemingly too late) is the sever drop in their working age population. The Chinese leadership's latest attempt to fix this is blowing up in their faces

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/world ... -iuds.html
After One-Child Policy, Outrage at China’s Offer to Remove IUDs

By SUI-LEE WEEJAN. 7, 2017
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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