The end of Work (?)

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Doc
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Doc » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:58 pm

Hockey Dad wrote:
Doc wrote:
Hockey Dad wrote:^^^
.... Soon, there will be simply no need for any labour, or retail, job. Following that, there will be no need for skilled trades. Performing arts and professions will be among the last but they will go too. .....
That day will never come, Milo:

;)
Perhaps. But why Not?

:lol:

That example of musical robots is not representative of what robots will be capable of, no doubt.

Regardless!

Why not? Because the audience are humans.

The humans are listening and observing and judging everything,
both among the studio audience and the wider film version audience.
But the humans will have little to no money to pay for it. Given that, robot rock would be the most market/cost efficient product. Robsicians work cheap, can play concerts 24 hours a day and not get tired. Plus they can play the music with mechanical perfection every time. Just put some vacuum tubes in them, and I bet they sound just like in the days.
If Milo thinks he can replace everything on the stage and in the film production with robots,
then we can happily discard it as alarmist technophobia.

8-)


I am not a technophobe Even after spending 2 hours earlier tonight convincing Google tech support of the error of their ways. And last week in a seven hour marathon tech support session with another company. It only takes me a few minutes to tire of humoring self assumed genius and getting on with bursting their little self encompassing tech bubbles. IE I live, eat, and breath technology. I love the smell of burning tech in the morning as it means I have the chance to fix it,learn something new, and maybe even make it better. A large portion of the technology I deal with is as cutting edge as it gets in the world. Not to brag that I am some kind of genus, It is not that, I just have a special set of skills from previous experience. It is just to give you an idea I am certainly not a technophobe. I absolutely love the stuff. I feel very fortunate to be in the loop. It is very new and extremely cool stuff. Nearly every day I see something new.

Rather my issue is that common technology is going faster than the new economic system to deal with it is being made up out of thin air. It is disrupting and will continue to disrupt societies and people's lives everywhere.

Did you know that the government of France pays people to grow lavender in France? Of course they are only allowed to grow so much of it as they have to leave some for other lavender farmers to grow. So lavender farmers have to know their place, and not aspire to things greater than they are. As things stand right now that is a very optimistic view of the world we are looking at.

Milo is against a socialist nirvana. A worker's paradise where there is no work to be done. Where transfer of crumbs is what is required, as the "smart" people control it all otherwise.

John D Rockefeller didn't end up as one of the richest men in the world because he was the best oil man or the best business man. He got his first big start when he made an under the table deal with other robber barons (IE the rail roads) to exclude his competitors products from getting to market via the only route available at the time - the rail roads. The monopolistic rail roads barons were all too happy to take their cut from Rockefeller's monopoly that made the pie bigger so there was more profit to share. That was not capitalism, it was crony capitalism.

Today we have disruptive tech. And the captains of disruptive tech want to monopolize it. Solely for themselves individually, or if not, by taking their cut through a crony oligarchy. Jeff Bezos wants to monopolize sales commercial goods in the US. Google wants to monopolize advertising. Facebook wants to monopolize communications and advertising. etc. etc. etc.

If anyone here does not believe this, then I challenge you to explain this as capitalism and free competition: http://venturebeat.com/2014/05/23/4-tec ... pete-pact/ :evil:



... and that's 'just' a few hillbillies.
Actually that is one of my favorites of the genre. Thanks for posting it. :D
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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Milo
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Milo » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:36 am

Hockey Dad wrote:
Doc wrote:
Hockey Dad wrote:^^^
.... Soon, there will be simply no need for any labour, or retail, job. Following that, there will be no need for skilled trades. Performing arts and professions will be among the last but they will go too. .....
That day will never come, Milo:

;)
Perhaps. But why Not?

:lol:

That example of musical robots is not representative of what robots will be capable of, no doubt.

Regardless!

Why not? Because the audience are humans.

The humans are listening and observing and judging everything,
both among the studio audience and the wider film version audience.

If Milo thinks he can replace everything on the stage and in the film production with robots,
then we can happily discard it as alarmist technophobia.

8-)



... and that's 'just' a few hillbillies.
Animation will inevitably because so realistic that it will be indistinguishable from human performance.

https://youtu.be/QNai94VApe4

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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Hockey Dad » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:48 am

Doc wrote: .... But the humans will have little to no money to pay for it. Given that, robot rock would be the most market/cost efficient product. Robsicians work cheap, can play concerts 24 hours a day and not get tired. Plus they can play the music with mechanical perfection every time. Just put some vacuum tubes in them, and I bet they sound just like in the days.


The humans will have little or no money, but they will be surrounded by perfect tech-replications of human activity, and the humans will like it, prefer it.

Where to begin, showing the flaws in this dystopian fantasizing?

With that Alison Krauss film (I prefer film to 'video' because it's so excellently produced, by humans, using tons of technology), let's start.

As your robots mercilessly start replacing elements in this film, one of the first cast members to get replaced is Alison Krauss' hairdresser.

So Alison shows up on the appointed day for makeup and hair; the robot (programmed with superhuman hairdressing knowledge) does a super job, perfectly rendering her hair, and makeup. It also was programmed to chat engagingly and interact warmly during the hairdressing session, so Alison is kept happy. Then the costume robot, which also has the role of set-designer robot, gives Alison her choice of robot-designed and produced clothes, and she is shown to the set - where the carpeting and background furniture is entirely designed and produced by another robot which has perfectly replaced the gay Hollywood set-designer.

This doesn't sound ridiculous in the least, does it.....

:roll:

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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Jim the Moron » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:42 am

"Once upon a time
A girl with moonlight in her eyes . . ."

Sorry, but that can't ever be replicated.

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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Hockey Dad » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:42 am

Milo wrote:.... Animation will inevitably become so realistic that it will be indistinguishable from human performance.

https://youtu.be/QNai94VApe4

You should look forward, then, to falling head over heels in love with a wonderful robot on the big screen.

It will only enhance your flaming ardor knowing full well she is not human but a robot.

:?

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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Jim the Moron » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:54 am

Actually, I prefer it warm and tight, rather than steely and indeterminate . . .

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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Milo » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:00 am

Hockey Dad wrote:
Doc wrote: .... But the humans will have little to no money to pay for it. Given that, robot rock would be the most market/cost efficient product. Robsicians work cheap, can play concerts 24 hours a day and not get tired. Plus they can play the music with mechanical perfection every time. Just put some vacuum tubes in them, and I bet they sound just like in the days.


The humans will have little or no money, but they will be surrounded by perfect tech-replications of human activity, and the humans will like it, prefer it.

Where to begin, showing the flaws in this dystopian fantasizing?

With that Alison Krauss film (I prefer film to 'video' because it's so excellently produced, by humans, using tons of technology), let's start.

As your robots mercilessly start replacing elements in this film, one of the first cast members to get replaced is Alison Krauss' hairdresser.

So Alison shows up on the appointed day for makeup and hair; the robot (programmed with superhuman hairdressing knowledge) does a super job, perfectly rendering her hair, and makeup. It also was programmed to chat engagingly and interact warmly during the hairdressing session, so Alison is kept happy. Then the costume robot, which also has the role of set-designer robot, gives Alison her choice of robot-designed and produced clothes, and she is shown to the set - where the carpeting and background furniture is entirely designed and produced by another robot which has perfectly replaced the gay Hollywood set-designer.

This doesn't sound ridiculous in the least, does it.....

:roll:
It won't happen all at once. Virtually every musician is using auto-tune or a variant of it. Their videos are visually doctored as well. As time passes the artists will be slowly eroded until there's no human left. Many people will say they don't like the trend but it is inexorable.

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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Doc » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:40 am

Hockey Dad wrote:
Doc wrote: .... But the humans will have little to no money to pay for it. Given that, robot rock would be the most market/cost efficient product. Robsicians work cheap, can play concerts 24 hours a day and not get tired. Plus they can play the music with mechanical perfection every time. Just put some vacuum tubes in them, and I bet they sound just like in the days.


The humans will have little or no money, but they will be surrounded by perfect tech-replications of human activity, and the humans will like it, prefer it.

Where to begin, showing the flaws in this dystopian fantasizing?

With that Alison Krauss film (I prefer film to 'video' because it's so excellently produced, by humans, using tons of technology), let's start.

As your robots mercilessly start replacing elements in this film, one of the first cast members to get replaced is Alison Krauss' hairdresser.

So Alison shows up on the appointed day for makeup and hair; the robot (programmed with superhuman hairdressing knowledge) does a super job, perfectly rendering her hair, and makeup. It also was programmed to chat engagingly and interact warmly during the hairdressing session, so Alison is kept happy. Then the costume robot, which also has the role of set-designer robot, gives Alison her choice of robot-designed and produced clothes, and she is shown to the set - where the carpeting and background furniture is entirely designed and produced by another robot which has perfectly replaced the gay Hollywood set-designer.

This doesn't sound ridiculous in the least, does it.....

:roll:
I think I am not stating my reservations clearly. Which is as much as anything the economics of this short term. On the economics of all this I only have to go back to 2004 for an analog situation.

"Absolutely no problem" Sure there isn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0JewORGmn4

The technology is out pacing the law, society, and people's lives. There is a huge opportunity here for this to spin out of control or to be spun by people that really do not care about the rest of the human race. The CDC keeps dangerous organisms in special high security labs for a reason. Not to say this technology is bad. Just that things may not turn out anything like people say they will.

I am sure that things will work out one way or another eventually. They always do. But the devil is in the details of how we get there. How many lives destroyed, how many lives ended until we get there? This point is a huge deal. What is the rush other than people making the tech expect to make huge amounts of money?
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Jim the Moron » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:02 am

Lives are being destroyed. But in this instance you can't blame auto-tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA2IRoPFIn0

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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Hockey Dad » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:42 am

Milo wrote:
Hockey Dad wrote:
Doc wrote: .... But the humans will have little to no money to pay for it. Given that, robot rock would be the most market/cost efficient product. Robsicians work cheap, can play concerts 24 hours a day and not get tired. Plus they can play the music with mechanical perfection every time. Just put some vacuum tubes in them, and I bet they sound just like in the days.


The humans will have little or no money, but they will be surrounded by perfect tech-replications of human activity, and the humans will like it, prefer it.

Where to begin, showing the flaws in this dystopian fantasizing?

With that Alison Krauss film (I prefer film to 'video' because it's so excellently produced, by humans, using tons of technology), let's start.

As your robots mercilessly start replacing elements in this film, one of the first cast members to get replaced is Alison Krauss' hairdresser.

So Alison shows up on the appointed day for makeup and hair; the robot (programmed with superhuman hairdressing knowledge) does a super job, perfectly rendering her hair, and makeup. It also was programmed to chat engagingly and interact warmly during the hairdressing session, so Alison is kept happy. Then the costume robot, which also has the role of set-designer robot, gives Alison her choice of robot-designed and produced clothes, and she is shown to the set - where the carpeting and background furniture is entirely designed and produced by another robot which has perfectly replaced the gay Hollywood set-designer.

This doesn't sound ridiculous in the least, does it.....

:roll:
It won't happen all at once. Virtually every musician is using auto-tune or a variant of it. Their videos are visually doctored as well. As time passes the artists will be slowly eroded until there's no human left. Many people will say they don't like the trend but it is inexorable.
It is neither inevitable as you say repeatedly, nor inexorable.

You're choosing to ignore and making unwarranted assumptions about the adopters, the audience, the humans.

It's a bit peculiar, you seem to think they'll have no choice, though you yourself seem to dislike it fervently.

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