The end of Work (?)

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Milo
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The end of Work (?)

Post by Milo » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:40 pm

A topic I am very interested in these days.

In my view we will inevitably arrive at a state where human labour will only be rewarded for its 'artisan' value. IOW, you will pay more and cherish the human product for its imperfections, however, that will be rare.

The question for me is, what happens in the near term? More specifically, what adjustments need to be made in order to accommodate the transition to a world where human labour is obsolete?

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Hocketing Dad
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Hocketing Dad » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:48 pm

Milo wrote:A topic I am very interested in these days.

In my view we will inevitably arrive at a state where human labour will only be rewarded for its 'artisan' value. IOW, you will pay more and cherish the human product for its imperfections, however, that will be rare.

The question for me is, what happens in the near term? More specifically, what adjustments need to be made in order to accommodate the transition to a world where human labour is obsolete?
Near or long term makes no difference, there is no limit to demand.

The ordinary standard of living throughout the industrialized countries is incomparable to those most privileged in earlier times, not many generations ago.

Yet everyone can easily think of improvements they would like, and robots etc. aren't going to change that.
What you describe as inevitable is not even a remote possibility.

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Milo
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Milo » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:03 pm

Hocketing Dad wrote:
Milo wrote:A topic I am very interested in these days.

In my view we will inevitably arrive at a state where human labour will only be rewarded for its 'artisan' value. IOW, you will pay more and cherish the human product for its imperfections, however, that will be rare.

The question for me is, what happens in the near term? More specifically, what adjustments need to be made in order to accommodate the transition to a world where human labour is obsolete?
Near or long term makes no difference, there is no limit to demand.

The ordinary standard of living throughout the industrialized countries is incomparable to those most privileged in earlier times, not many generations ago.

Yet everyone can easily think of improvements they would like, and robots etc. aren't going to change that.
What you describe as inevitable is not even a remote possibility.
So nobody ever goes hungry?

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Booklady
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Booklady » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:17 pm

Milo wrote:A topic I am very interested in these days.

In my view we will inevitably arrive at a state where human labour will only be rewarded for its 'artisan' value. IOW, you will pay more and cherish the human product for its imperfections, however, that will be rare.

The question for me is, what happens in the near term? More specifically, what adjustments need to be made in order to accommodate the transition to a world where human labour is obsolete?
Thank you Milo, something interesting to ponder, as the death knell of globalism tolls.

The end of work is the subject of a famous futurist title by Jeremy Rivkin, I had to read it for one of my classes, found it fascinating. But was unconvinced, since Rivkin's did not really give a good definition of work to begin with, and he really did not put much thought as to what would replace it.

Anyway here is a link to the book online, The End of Work: The Decline of the Global Labor Force and the Dawn of the Post Market Era, 1995

https://monoskop.org/images/1/1f/Rifkin ... f_Work.pdf
A saucer of cream will do for me, thank you for your kindness.

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Hocketing Dad
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Hocketing Dad » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:54 pm

Milo wrote:
Hocketing Dad wrote:
Milo wrote:A topic I am very interested in these days.

In my view we will inevitably arrive at a state where human labour will only be rewarded for its 'artisan' value. IOW, you will pay more and cherish the human product for its imperfections, however, that will be rare.

The question for me is, what happens in the near term? More specifically, what adjustments need to be made in order to accommodate the transition to a world where human labour is obsolete?
Near or long term makes no difference, there is no limit to demand.

The ordinary standard of living throughout the industrialized countries is incomparable to those most privileged in earlier times, not many generations ago.

Yet everyone can easily think of improvements they would like, and robots etc. aren't going to change that.
What you describe as inevitable is not even a remote possibility.
So nobody ever goes hungry?
Just where did you misinterpret that?

Hardly anybody goes hungry in the developed countries,
and it is fantastic what improvement there's been in China and much of the rest of the far east.

If you'd been told a couple of decades ago that Rolls Royce would have its biggest market in China
wouldn't you have thought that outlandish?

Lots of artisanal work require in a Rolls, right? And so many Chinese who will eventually be able to afford to put their order in...

:lol:

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Doc
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Doc » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:59 pm

Milo wrote:A topic I am very interested in these days.

In my view we will inevitably arrive at a state where human labour will only be rewarded for its 'artisan' value. IOW, you will pay more and cherish the human product for its imperfections, however, that will be rare.

The question for me is, what happens in the near term? More specifically, what adjustments need to be made in order to accommodate the transition to a world where human labour is obsolete?
That is a really tough question Milo. A good place to start might be Native Americans in Alaska. Another side to this is -- who is going to have money to buy all of these products made by Automation?

I was looking into something else earlier and came across this:

http://www.icr.org/article/darwins-infl ... capitalis/
The theory of natural selection, it is said, could only have originated in England, because only laissezfaire England provided the atomistic, egotistic mentality necessary to its conception. Only there could Darwin have blandly assumed that the basic unit was the individual, the basic instinct selfinterest, and the basic activity struggle. Spengler, describing the Origin as: "the application of economics to biology," said that it reeked of the atmosphere of the English factory . . . natural selection arose . . . in England because it was a perfect expression of Victorian "greed-philosophy" of the capitalist ethic and Manchester economics (1962, p. 418).
Self interest without empathy may be natural law, but it also vacates any meaning to civilization and civil society. If you want an excuse to kill huge numbers of people, then find a system that is incapable of empathy and put it into place. Wild beasts may kill without empathy via natural selection so as only the strong survive. That is proper as that is the only choice they have. They know of no other way. But they do not have Nuclear weapons and other means of mega murder.

https://books.google.com/books?id=uiuiB ... n.&f=false

And the fact is that every major incident of mega murder in the last century was justified by social Darwinism Which was also retroactively applied to colonialism And if the Views of people like Zack Morris are to be believed, the excuse for the implied future holocaust in the west, via "multiculturalism", of its native peoples.

Life with no meaning and purpose is not worth living. Survival of self and future generations is meaning and purpose but our current group of elitist fascists want to take away even that.

The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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Doc
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Doc » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:08 pm

Hocketing Dad wrote:
Milo wrote:A topic I am very interested in these days.

In my view we will inevitably arrive at a state where human labour will only be rewarded for its 'artisan' value. IOW, you will pay more and cherish the human product for its imperfections, however, that will be rare.

The question for me is, what happens in the near term? More specifically, what adjustments need to be made in order to accommodate the transition to a world where human labour is obsolete?
Near or long term makes no difference, there is no limit to demand.

The ordinary standard of living throughout the industrialized countries is incomparable to those most privileged in earlier times, not many generations ago.

Yet everyone can easily think of improvements they would like, and robots etc. aren't going to change that.
What you describe as inevitable is not even a remote possibility.
There is a limit to demand called means to pay. No means to pay no demand.
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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Hocketing Dad
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Hocketing Dad » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:17 pm

Doc wrote:
There is a limit to demand called means to pay. No means to pay no demand.
The future does not look like Venezuela does, currently.

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Doc
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Doc » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:38 pm

Hocketing Dad wrote:
Doc wrote:
There is a limit to demand called means to pay. No means to pay no demand.
The future does not look like Venezuela does, currently.
From everything I have looked at, as a sometimes technological forecaster, learning automation is proceeding in leap and bounds. Self driving cars are still problematic but industrial process are not. Nor are Financial process.

All of it is just a matter of years more than decades.

So what are people displaced from a means of supporting their own lives going to do? Go on welfare? What is the economic system that works under such a situation? Social Darwinism? Statist welfare? Mercantilism? Charity? Something else?
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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Hocketing Dad
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Re: The end of Work (?)

Post by Hocketing Dad » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:46 pm

Doc wrote:
Hocketing Dad wrote:
Doc wrote:
There is a limit to demand called means to pay. No means to pay no demand.
The future does not look like Venezuela does, currently.
From everything I have looked at, as a sometimes technological forecaster, learning automation is proceeding in leap and bounds. Self driving cars are still problematic but industrial process are not. Nor are Financial process.

All of it is just a matter of years more than decades.

So what are people displaced from a means of supporting their own lives going to do? Go on welfare? What is the economic system that works under such a situation? Social Darwinism? Statist welfare? Mercantilism? Charity? Something else?
To begin with, being a 'sometimes tech forecaster', is completely useless per se,
and the first occupation that the robots will remorselessly do away with.

So Doc, are you or have you ever been a taxicab driver?

Are you slaving away on an assembly line, fitting the paraffin lamps on Model T's?

Or perhaps you are one of a roomful of clerks, or their overseer, in a banking house...

Think back two generations and tell me what occupations are the same then, as now.

So if you cannot imagine what the job openings will be in times ahead,
it is really not different from what has gone on already.
There will be plenty of jobs, paying more.
Demand is infinite.

8-)

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