Facism and Nazism are from the left

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cassowary
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Facism and Nazism are from the left

Post by cassowary » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:25 pm

Big Liar - How Theodor Adorno redefined Fascism.
Fascism and Nazism are both phenomena of the left. This makes ideological sense, because at their core they represent ideologies of the centralized, all-powerful state. Moreover, fascism grew out of Marxism, and fascism’s founder Benito Mussolini, was a Marxist and lifelong socialist. Hitler, too, was a socialist who headed the National Socialist Party and in fact changed the name of the German Workers Party to make it the National Socialist German Workers Party.

How, then, did progressives in America re-define fascism and Nazism as phenomena of the right? This sleight-of-hand occurred after World War II, once fascism and Nazism were discredited with the reputation of Holocaust. Then progressives recognized it was important to cover up the leftist roots of fascism and Nazism and to move them from the left-wing column into the right-wing column.

The man most responsible for the progressive redefinition of fascism is Theodor Adorno, a German Marxist intellectual and a member of the influential Institute for Social Research, otherwise known as the Frankfurt School. The Frankfurt School scholars were leftists and most of them were refugees from Nazi Germany. Some settled in Europe; others like Adorno and Herbert Marcuse came to the United States.
That is why I have always said, the worst mass murderers were all from the Left - Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot.

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Doc
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Re: Facism and Nazism are from the left

Post by Doc » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:55 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:25 pm
Big Liar - How Theodor Adorno redefined Fascism.
Fascism and Nazism are both phenomena of the left. This makes ideological sense, because at their core they represent ideologies of the centralized, all-powerful state. Moreover, fascism grew out of Marxism, and fascism’s founder Benito Mussolini, was a Marxist and lifelong socialist. Hitler, too, was a socialist who headed the National Socialist Party and in fact changed the name of the German Workers Party to make it the National Socialist German Workers Party.

How, then, did progressives in America re-define fascism and Nazism as phenomena of the right? This sleight-of-hand occurred after World War II, once fascism and Nazism were discredited with the reputation of Holocaust. Then progressives recognized it was important to cover up the leftist roots of fascism and Nazism and to move them from the left-wing column into the right-wing column.

The man most responsible for the progressive redefinition of fascism is Theodor Adorno, a German Marxist intellectual and a member of the influential Institute for Social Research, otherwise known as the Frankfurt School. The Frankfurt School scholars were leftists and most of them were refugees from Nazi Germany. Some settled in Europe; others like Adorno and Herbert Marcuse came to the United States.
That is why I have always said, the worst mass murderers were all from the Left - Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot.
My Question is Why isn't anyone calling for the banning of the Democratic Party for its long history of Racism?
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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Re: Facism and Nazism are from the left

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:56 pm

This whole left-right thing isn't very illuminating because it relies on the mistaken assumption that ideology fits on a one-dimensional spectrum. But fascists aren't simply on the right, and communists aren't simply on the left, they're both in the authoritarian quadrant of a two-dimensional map where economic freedom and personal freedom are the two axes.

I'm sure one could devise even more complex n-dimensional systems for this, but the point is that in all of them, fascists and communists would end up in the same postcode, and it would be a different one from garden variety social democrats or conservatives.
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neverfail
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Re: Facism and Nazism are from the left

Post by neverfail » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:20 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:56 pm
This whole left-right thing isn't very illuminating because it relies on the mistaken assumption that ideology fits on a one-dimensional spectrum. But fascists aren't simply on the right, and communists aren't simply on the left, they're both in the authoritarian quadrant of a two-dimensional map where economic freedom and personal freedom are the two axes.

I'm sure one could devise even more complex n-dimensional systems for this, but the point is that in all of them, fascists and communists would end up in the same postcode, and it would be a different one from garden variety social democrats or conservatives.
Well put, Steve!

Instead of thinking in black and white terms of right is Godly whereas left is the work of Satan they should instead think outside that box and distinguish between power gained and/or imposed with violence and power entrusted peacefully via the ballot box. I notice that these online ideologue types never seem to consider that distinction to be of any importance.

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Re: Facism and Nazism are from the left

Post by cassowary » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:28 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:56 pm
This whole left-right thing isn't very illuminating because it relies on the mistaken assumption that ideology fits on a one-dimensional spectrum. But fascists aren't simply on the right, and communists aren't simply on the left, they're both in the authoritarian quadrant of a two-dimensional map where economic freedom and personal freedom are the two axes.

I'm sure one could devise even more complex n-dimensional systems for this, but the point is that in all of them, fascists and communists would end up in the same postcode, and it would be a different one from garden variety social democrats or conservatives.
I agree with you Steve, I think. Fascism and Communism are in the same quadrant, meaning they are both authoritarian left. No economic and political freedom.

Bernie Sanders, Corbyn and people like Neverfail are in politically free but economically not free quadrant.

Pinochet, LKY and former HK governor Chris Patten are in the Economically Free but politically Not Free quadrant. My inclusion of Chris Patten may surprise some but don't forget HK was a colony then, Patten was not elected by the HK people.

The sweet spot, in my view, are those in the Politically and Economically Free quadrant. These will come from the Republican Party, the Consevative Party of the UK and the Liberal/National parties of Australia. Admittedly, not all politicians in these parties are sufficiently supportive of economica freedom.

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Re: Facism and Nazism are from the left

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:43 pm

cassowary wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:28 am
The sweet spot, in my view, are those in the Politically and Economically Free quadrant. These will come from the Republican Party, the Consevative Party of the UK and the Liberal/National parties of Australia. Admittedly, not all politicians in these parties are sufficiently supportive of economica freedom.
Just because conservatives habitually misappropriate libertarian rhetoric doesn't mean they belong in the libertarian quadrant. People in the parties you list generally do not support individual liberties, preferring tortured explanation of why "culture" (hint hint) or exigent historical circumstances justify big government approaches to immigration, marriage equality, drug prohibition, foreign military interventionism, etc.
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