Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

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Doc
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Re: Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

Post by Doc » Sun May 13, 2018 7:01 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 6:22 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 pm

The root problem with appointed prosecutors is that they are bureaucrats will little chance to be fired for anything short of being clearly illegal.
That is true. But I fear that US prosecutors, whether appointed like Special Counsel Bob Mueller or elected, the justice system is tainted with partisanship. Both sides are doing it. The Republicans got Ken Starr to investigate Bill Clinton on Whitewater but all they got was one lousy blow job. Monica Lewinsksi.
Clinton ended up paying Paula Jones $850K and losing his law license for perjury while testifying before a court. THough the real crimes he got away with. Which seemed to me related more to what Hillary did than what he did.
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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cassowary
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Re: Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

Post by cassowary » Sun May 13, 2018 8:06 pm

Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 7:01 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 6:22 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 pm

The root problem with appointed prosecutors is that they are bureaucrats will little chance to be fired for anything short of being clearly illegal.
That is true. But I fear that US prosecutors, whether appointed like Special Counsel Bob Mueller or elected, the justice system is tainted with partisanship. Both sides are doing it. The Republicans got Ken Starr to investigate Bill Clinton on Whitewater but all they got was one lousy blow job. Monica Lewinsksi.
Clinton ended up paying Paula Jones $850K and losing his law license for perjury while testifying before a court. THough the real crimes he got away with. Which seemed to me related more to what Hillary did than what he did.
I don't think Mueller will find anything to do with Trump-Russia collusion. But the Democrats will continue to believe there was collusion and that Trump got away with it.

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Milo
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Re: Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

Post by Milo » Sun May 13, 2018 10:34 pm

Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:44 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:01 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 9:08 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:36 am
Milo wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:55 am


Selling your home isn't the same as being bankrupt and he pleaded out and Trump fired him for lying. You'll have to do better than that.
OH so the punishment for the innocent is having to sell your home. You have a very interesting sense of Justice Milo.
He's right, Milo, that's not a good thing about which to be blasé.
Innocent? Where do you get that?
Sorry, I should have specified that I was talking about the category, rather than Flynn specifically. I meant that malicious prosecution is a real thing, and that it can bankrupt even those who are never charged.
This was before Flynn plead guilty and before the judge in the case was forced to recuse himself, for reasons unknown, before sentencing. There are others as well that have literally have had to sell their homes that have not been convicted of anything.

The root problem with appointed prosecutors is that they are bureaucrats will little chance to be fired for anything short of being clearly illegal.
Nonsense, I know lots of prosecutors and they are under three different microscopes at all times. I have it much easier defending.

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Doc
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Re: Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

Post by Doc » Mon May 14, 2018 8:36 am

Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:34 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:44 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:01 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 9:08 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:36 am


OH so the punishment for the innocent is having to sell your home. You have a very interesting sense of Justice Milo.
He's right, Milo, that's not a good thing about which to be blasé.
Innocent? Where do you get that?
Sorry, I should have specified that I was talking about the category, rather than Flynn specifically. I meant that malicious prosecution is a real thing, and that it can bankrupt even those who are never charged.
This was before Flynn plead guilty and before the judge in the case was forced to recuse himself, for reasons unknown, before sentencing. There are others as well that have literally have had to sell their homes that have not been convicted of anything.

The root problem with appointed prosecutors is that they are bureaucrats will little chance to be fired for anything short of being clearly illegal.
Nonsense, I know lots of prosecutors and they are under three different microscopes at all times. I have it much easier defending.
under microscopes being watched by who exactly?

BTW What do you want on your ham sandwich?

https://pjmedia.com/trending/mueller-in ... edium=post
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Milo
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Re: Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

Post by Milo » Mon May 14, 2018 9:38 am

Doc wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:36 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:34 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:44 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:01 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 9:08 pm

He's right, Milo, that's not a good thing about which to be blasé.
Innocent? Where do you get that?
Sorry, I should have specified that I was talking about the category, rather than Flynn specifically. I meant that malicious prosecution is a real thing, and that it can bankrupt even those who are never charged.
This was before Flynn plead guilty and before the judge in the case was forced to recuse himself, for reasons unknown, before sentencing. There are others as well that have literally have had to sell their homes that have not been convicted of anything.

The root problem with appointed prosecutors is that they are bureaucrats will little chance to be fired for anything short of being clearly illegal.
Nonsense, I know lots of prosecutors and they are under three different microscopes at all times. I have it much easier defending.
under microscopes being watched by who exactly?
In detail:

- The judge, who is required to hear both arguments and has to worry about looking bad on appeal. This includes arguments for continuing to trial in the first place. Flynn attempted to put his matter to the venue of the Senate in exchange for immunity, the Senate refused. He has since pleaded out.

- The Law Society / Bar Association, misconduct towards another lawyer and anything that does not advance legal issues but that can bring the justice system into disrepute; can result in discipline up to disbarment and civil action. Anyone practising law has to answer to their guild and the guild wants to keep a good public image, or at least a low profile!

- The ministry of justice, run by the Minister of Justice, accountable to the electorate. Trump, or Bill Clinton many years ago, can / could have fire(d) the Special Counsel at any time, if not directly then indirectly.

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Milo
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Re: Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

Post by Milo » Mon May 14, 2018 12:53 pm

Milo wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:38 am
Doc wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:36 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:34 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:44 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:01 am


Innocent? Where do you get that?
Sorry, I should have specified that I was talking about the category, rather than Flynn specifically. I meant that malicious prosecution is a real thing, and that it can bankrupt even those who are never charged.
This was before Flynn plead guilty and before the judge in the case was forced to recuse himself, for reasons unknown, before sentencing. There are others as well that have literally have had to sell their homes that have not been convicted of anything.

The root problem with appointed prosecutors is that they are bureaucrats will little chance to be fired for anything short of being clearly illegal.
Nonsense, I know lots of prosecutors and they are under three different microscopes at all times. I have it much easier defending.
under microscopes being watched by who exactly?
In detail:

- The judge, who is required to hear both arguments and has to worry about looking bad on appeal. This includes arguments for continuing to trial in the first place. Flynn attempted to put his matter to the venue of the Senate in exchange for immunity, the Senate refused. He has since pleaded out.

- The Law Society / Bar Association, misconduct towards another lawyer and anything that does not advance legal issues but that can bring the justice system into disrepute; can result in discipline up to disbarment and civil action. Anyone practising law has to answer to their guild and the guild wants to keep a good public image, or at least a low profile!

- The ministry of justice, run by the Minister of Justice, accountable to the electorate. Trump, or Bill Clinton many years ago, can / could have fire(d) the Special Counsel at any time, if not directly then indirectly.
And almost too obvious to mention:

The defence counsel, who is paid to expose any weaknesses in the other side's case, and who will be heard by the judge.

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Doc
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Re: Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

Post by Doc » Tue May 15, 2018 10:52 am

Milo wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:38 am
Doc wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:36 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:34 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:44 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:01 am


Innocent? Where do you get that?
Sorry, I should have specified that I was talking about the category, rather than Flynn specifically. I meant that malicious prosecution is a real thing, and that it can bankrupt even those who are never charged.
This was before Flynn plead guilty and before the judge in the case was forced to recuse himself, for reasons unknown, before sentencing. There are others as well that have literally have had to sell their homes that have not been convicted of anything.

The root problem with appointed prosecutors is that they are bureaucrats will little chance to be fired for anything short of being clearly illegal.
Nonsense, I know lots of prosecutors and they are under three different microscopes at all times. I have it much easier defending.
under microscopes being watched by who exactly?
In detail:

- The judge, who is required to hear both arguments and has to worry about looking bad on appeal. This includes arguments for continuing to trial in the first place. Flynn attempted to put his matter to the venue of the Senate in exchange for immunity, the Senate refused. He has since pleaded out.

- The Law Society / Bar Association, misconduct towards another lawyer and anything that does not advance legal issues but that can bring the justice system into disrepute; can result in discipline up to disbarment and civil action. Anyone practising law has to answer to their guild and the guild wants to keep a good public image, or at least a low profile!

- The ministry of justice, run by the Minister of Justice, accountable to the electorate. Trump, or Bill Clinton many years ago, can / could have fire(d) the Special Counsel at any time, if not directly then indirectly.
You mean like in the case of Special Prosecutor Mueller capto Andrew Wiessman?

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/31/busi ... ersen.html
Justices Unanimously Overturn Conviction of Arthur Andersen

But the decision represents little more than a Pyrrhic victory for Andersen, which lost its clients after being indicted on obstruction of justice charges and has no chance of returning as a viable enterprise. The accounting firm has shrunk from 28,000 employees in the United States to a skeleton crew of 200, who are attending to the final details of closing down the partnership. [Page C1.] In its ruling, legal experts said, the Supreme Court did not ultimately settle the issue of whether Andersen acted with criminal intent when it allowed many of Enron's accounting papers to be destroyed. But it made clear that prosecutors went too far by pressing District Judge Melinda Harmon in Houston to set such a low hurdle for the jury to reach a guilty verdict in the case in 2002.

"Indeed, it is striking how little culpability the instructions required," Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist said in his opinion for the court, issued just over a month after an argument in which justices across the ideological spectrum expressed great skepticism about the prosecution of Andersen. During the April 27 argument, Justice Antonin Scalia characterized the government's theory of the case as "weird."
So 28,000 people lost their jobs and this very same sleazy proctorial jerk is the top aid in the "But Russia" investigation.
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Milo
Posts: 1078
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Re: Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

Post by Milo » Tue May 15, 2018 8:04 pm

Doc wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:52 am
Milo wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:38 am
Doc wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:36 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:34 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:44 am

Sorry, I should have specified that I was talking about the category, rather than Flynn specifically. I meant that malicious prosecution is a real thing, and that it can bankrupt even those who are never charged.
This was before Flynn plead guilty and before the judge in the case was forced to recuse himself, for reasons unknown, before sentencing. There are others as well that have literally have had to sell their homes that have not been convicted of anything.

The root problem with appointed prosecutors is that they are bureaucrats will little chance to be fired for anything short of being clearly illegal.
Nonsense, I know lots of prosecutors and they are under three different microscopes at all times. I have it much easier defending.
under microscopes being watched by who exactly?
In detail:

- The judge, who is required to hear both arguments and has to worry about looking bad on appeal. This includes arguments for continuing to trial in the first place. Flynn attempted to put his matter to the venue of the Senate in exchange for immunity, the Senate refused. He has since pleaded out.

- The Law Society / Bar Association, misconduct towards another lawyer and anything that does not advance legal issues but that can bring the justice system into disrepute; can result in discipline up to disbarment and civil action. Anyone practising law has to answer to their guild and the guild wants to keep a good public image, or at least a low profile!

- The ministry of justice, run by the Minister of Justice, accountable to the electorate. Trump, or Bill Clinton many years ago, can / could have fire(d) the Special Counsel at any time, if not directly then indirectly.
You mean like in the case of Special Prosecutor Mueller capto Andrew Wiessman?

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/31/busi ... ersen.html
Justices Unanimously Overturn Conviction of Arthur Andersen

But the decision represents little more than a Pyrrhic victory for Andersen, which lost its clients after being indicted on obstruction of justice charges and has no chance of returning as a viable enterprise. The accounting firm has shrunk from 28,000 employees in the United States to a skeleton crew of 200, who are attending to the final details of closing down the partnership. [Page C1.] In its ruling, legal experts said, the Supreme Court did not ultimately settle the issue of whether Andersen acted with criminal intent when it allowed many of Enron's accounting papers to be destroyed. But it made clear that prosecutors went too far by pressing District Judge Melinda Harmon in Houston to set such a low hurdle for the jury to reach a guilty verdict in the case in 2002.

"Indeed, it is striking how little culpability the instructions required," Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist said in his opinion for the court, issued just over a month after an argument in which justices across the ideological spectrum expressed great skepticism about the prosecution of Andersen. During the April 27 argument, Justice Antonin Scalia characterized the government's theory of the case as "weird."
So 28,000 people lost their jobs and this very same sleazy proctorial jerk is the top aid in the "But Russia" investigation.
The state of Louisiana has an elected AG.

You make my point.

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Doc
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Re: Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

Post by Doc » Wed May 16, 2018 11:20 am

Milo wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:04 pm
Doc wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:52 am
Milo wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:38 am
Doc wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:36 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:34 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 pm


This was before Flynn plead guilty and before the judge in the case was forced to recuse himself, for reasons unknown, before sentencing. There are others as well that have literally have had to sell their homes that have not been convicted of anything.

The root problem with appointed prosecutors is that they are bureaucrats will little chance to be fired for anything short of being clearly illegal.
Nonsense, I know lots of prosecutors and they are under three different microscopes at all times. I have it much easier defending.
under microscopes being watched by who exactly?
In detail:

- The judge, who is required to hear both arguments and has to worry about looking bad on appeal. This includes arguments for continuing to trial in the first place. Flynn attempted to put his matter to the venue of the Senate in exchange for immunity, the Senate refused. He has since pleaded out.

- The Law Society / Bar Association, misconduct towards another lawyer and anything that does not advance legal issues but that can bring the justice system into disrepute; can result in discipline up to disbarment and civil action. Anyone practising law has to answer to their guild and the guild wants to keep a good public image, or at least a low profile!

- The ministry of justice, run by the Minister of Justice, accountable to the electorate. Trump, or Bill Clinton many years ago, can / could have fire(d) the Special Counsel at any time, if not directly then indirectly.
You mean like in the case of Special Prosecutor Mueller capto Andrew Wiessman?

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/31/busi ... ersen.html
Justices Unanimously Overturn Conviction of Arthur Andersen

But the decision represents little more than a Pyrrhic victory for Andersen, which lost its clients after being indicted on obstruction of justice charges and has no chance of returning as a viable enterprise. The accounting firm has shrunk from 28,000 employees in the United States to a skeleton crew of 200, who are attending to the final details of closing down the partnership. [Page C1.] In its ruling, legal experts said, the Supreme Court did not ultimately settle the issue of whether Andersen acted with criminal intent when it allowed many of Enron's accounting papers to be destroyed. But it made clear that prosecutors went too far by pressing District Judge Melinda Harmon in Houston to set such a low hurdle for the jury to reach a guilty verdict in the case in 2002.

"Indeed, it is striking how little culpability the instructions required," Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist said in his opinion for the court, issued just over a month after an argument in which justices across the ideological spectrum expressed great skepticism about the prosecution of Andersen. During the April 27 argument, Justice Antonin Scalia characterized the government's theory of the case as "weird."
So 28,000 people lost their jobs and this very same sleazy proctorial jerk is the top aid in the "But Russia" investigation.
The state of Louisiana has an elected AG.

You make my point.
I did not mention LA Milo. I did not say that elected AG's were perfect either I am saying is that they are much more preferable to sleaze bag lawyers like Wiessman. But if you really want to make your point then you should bring up NY State AG's to try to make your point. What is it? The last two or is it three have resigned in disgrace. Of course had they been appointed we would probably never even heard of the scandals they resigned over.

I suppose Shakespeare was right "Kill all the lawyers" (Present company excluded of course).
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Milo
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Re: Hahaha. Another Liberal Democrat bites the dust

Post by Milo » Wed May 16, 2018 5:21 pm

Doc wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:20 am
Milo wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:04 pm
Doc wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:52 am
Milo wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:38 am
Doc wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:36 am
Milo wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:34 pm


Nonsense, I know lots of prosecutors and they are under three different microscopes at all times. I have it much easier defending.
under microscopes being watched by who exactly?
In detail:

- The judge, who is required to hear both arguments and has to worry about looking bad on appeal. This includes arguments for continuing to trial in the first place. Flynn attempted to put his matter to the venue of the Senate in exchange for immunity, the Senate refused. He has since pleaded out.

- The Law Society / Bar Association, misconduct towards another lawyer and anything that does not advance legal issues but that can bring the justice system into disrepute; can result in discipline up to disbarment and civil action. Anyone practising law has to answer to their guild and the guild wants to keep a good public image, or at least a low profile!

- The ministry of justice, run by the Minister of Justice, accountable to the electorate. Trump, or Bill Clinton many years ago, can / could have fire(d) the Special Counsel at any time, if not directly then indirectly.
You mean like in the case of Special Prosecutor Mueller capto Andrew Wiessman?

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/31/busi ... ersen.html
Justices Unanimously Overturn Conviction of Arthur Andersen

But the decision represents little more than a Pyrrhic victory for Andersen, which lost its clients after being indicted on obstruction of justice charges and has no chance of returning as a viable enterprise. The accounting firm has shrunk from 28,000 employees in the United States to a skeleton crew of 200, who are attending to the final details of closing down the partnership. [Page C1.] In its ruling, legal experts said, the Supreme Court did not ultimately settle the issue of whether Andersen acted with criminal intent when it allowed many of Enron's accounting papers to be destroyed. But it made clear that prosecutors went too far by pressing District Judge Melinda Harmon in Houston to set such a low hurdle for the jury to reach a guilty verdict in the case in 2002.

"Indeed, it is striking how little culpability the instructions required," Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist said in his opinion for the court, issued just over a month after an argument in which justices across the ideological spectrum expressed great skepticism about the prosecution of Andersen. During the April 27 argument, Justice Antonin Scalia characterized the government's theory of the case as "weird."
So 28,000 people lost their jobs and this very same sleazy proctorial jerk is the top aid in the "But Russia" investigation.
The state of Louisiana has an elected AG.

You make my point.
I did not mention LA Milo. I did not say that elected AG's were perfect either I am saying is that they are much more preferable to sleaze bag lawyers like Wiessman. But if you really want to make your point then you should bring up NY State AG's to try to make your point. What is it? The last two or is it three have resigned in disgrace. Of course had they been appointed we would probably never even heard of the scandals they resigned over.

I suppose Shakespeare was right "Kill all the lawyers" (Present company excluded of course).
That is generally thought to be a compliment to lawyers, as it is said by a total cad.

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