France's president arrives in Sydney

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neverfail
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Re: France's president arrives in Sydney

Post by neverfail » Thu May 03, 2018 5:12 am

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 6:34 pm
Bloody hell..... Macron's gone off the plate. He's in a parallel universe..... :o ............
(quote:) "Tinfoil alert! "Well, the fact is that Australia doesn't really exist. Everything you have ever heard about it was made up, and any pictures of it you have seen were faked by the government," the user said. "I am sure you have even talked to people on the internet who claim to be from Australia. They are really secret government agents who are surfing the internet to enforce these false beliefs." [Emphasis added]"

Greetings from your secret government agent surfing the internet to enforce false beliefs, Izzy. :lol:

(By the way, In just a few days time I am due to board an aircraft to fly me out of the non-existent land of Australia into the parallel universe of North America. Won't that be a thrill?) :D
Last edited by neverfail on Thu May 03, 2018 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sertorio
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Re: France's president arrives in Sydney

Post by Sertorio » Thu May 03, 2018 5:28 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:12 am

(By the way, In just a few days time I am due to board an aircraft to fly me out of the non-existent land of Australia into the parallel universe of North America. Won't that be a thrill?) :D
You are a braver man than I am... Be sure not to be caught in any minor traffic violation while there... You might be beaten up or even shot, and fined in excess of a thosand dollars... :twisted:

neverfail
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Re: France's president arrives in Sydney

Post by neverfail » Thu May 03, 2018 5:50 am

Sertorio, I have been there twice before so I know about the hazards. Thanks anyway!
...................................................................................

Getting back to business: the chief concern that seems to have drawn the French president all the way to Australia is a multi-billion dollar contract for the building of a dozen submarines of French design to re-equip this wing of the Royal Australian Navy. All but two will be built in an Australian shipyard and will require technology transfer from France. The present submarine fleet is of a 1980's Swedish design that were likewise built in the same shipyard under licence from the Swedish firm that originated the design.

Collaboration between Australia and France in this kind of endeavour is not new. In the late 1960's the entire fighter wing of our air force was supplied with the then current generation of French designed Mirage fighter-interceptor aircraft; likewise manufactured in Australia.

neverfail
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Re: France's president arrives in Sydney

Post by neverfail » Thu May 03, 2018 5:32 pm

uche africanus wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 6:55 pm
France is now a small beer of a country.
Well, Australia is but one of the world's middling powers also. Outside of our immediate Asia-Pacific region we do not seem to carry much influence either and we carry only a limited amount even there. So it seems to me that whenever our two sets of national interests come into alignment, it is not a bad idea for the two to team up and pool resources.

uche africanus wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 6:55 pm
Outside of West and Central Africa, it really does not carry much influence. And it’s African empire will not survive for long.
I am not so concerned about Africa, Uche; which is outside of our normal sphere of influence. I am more concerned about the destiny of France's residual empire of south Pacific islands. Were France to suddenly abdicate sovereignty over the French Pacific, guess who would promptly move into the power vacuum?

China, of course!

Since it seems to be in Australia's destiny to have a foreign power domiciled close by in our south Pacific neighborhood, I much prefer that power to be France instead of China.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: France's president arrives in Sydney

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu May 03, 2018 6:59 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:32 pm
I am not so concerned about Africa, Uche; which is outside of our normal sphere of influence. I am more concerned about the destiny of France's residual empire of south Pacific islands. Were France to suddenly abdicate sovereignty over the French Pacific, guess who would promptly move into the power vacuum?

China, of course!

Since it seems to be in Australia's destiny to have a foreign power domiciled close by in our south Pacific neighborhood, I much prefer that power to be France instead of China.
I wouldn't worry. Self-rule isn't independence, and even that assumes the referendum passes.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
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neverfail
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Re: France's president arrives in Sydney

Post by neverfail » Thu May 03, 2018 10:12 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 6:59 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:32 pm
I am not so concerned about Africa, Uche; which is outside of our normal sphere of influence. I am more concerned about the destiny of France's residual empire of south Pacific islands. Were France to suddenly abdicate sovereignty over the French Pacific, guess who would promptly move into the power vacuum?

China, of course!

Since it seems to be in Australia's destiny to have a foreign power domiciled close by in our south Pacific neighborhood, I much prefer that power to be France instead of China.
I wouldn't worry. Self-rule isn't independence, and even that assumes the referendum passes.
I agree with you on that Steve. The island's population is about 43% Kanak (native New Caledonian, mainly Melanesian); another 40% or so white (a mix of locally born people mainly of French immigrant ancestors known as Caldoce along with a lesser number of metropolitan French immigrant-settlers) with the rest a mixture of North African, Vietnamese and Tahitian and some Chinese.

Kanak nationalism offers nothing for either the whites nor these other non-Kanak ethnic groups; except possibly for the bane of future dispossession. But mere self-rule whilst the Island remains within French sovereignty is a different matter. As long as France continues to support the island self-rule could end up being a good thing all round.

neverfail
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Re: France's president now arrives in Noumea

Post by neverfail » Fri May 04, 2018 3:54 pm

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/in ... 4zdd6.html

When I last visited the island in 1982 it was, visibly and palpably, a hot spot of social and political tensions. I thought that things had simmered down since but from this report (above) it seems that the same old discontents are still bubbling below the surface.

The root cause of the discontent was easy to see. The whites lived well in Mediterranean style villas - the native Kamaks dwelled in improvised tin and wood shanties.

uche africanus
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Re: France's president arrives in Sydney

Post by uche africanus » Fri May 04, 2018 5:30 pm

neverfail,

Thanks for your excellent response. There is not one thing that you wrote above that l disagree with or fault.

I think it makes sense that countries like yours and France are cooperating on security and other matters. Australilia is an Asian- Pacific country that is also ardently western by culture and by choice. Especially in a part of the world that is becoming less western and militarized.

Australia’s ability to retain its national and regional security capacity and some influence will depend on its western allies. How long such policy will continue and with the vigor that Canberra has pursued it and in the face of its growing reliance on its Chines trade is beyond my capacity to assess.

Now, let us return to the country, France and the main reasons for my post. First, France never grants real independence to its former colonies and holdings. Even countries that have been granted official “flag” independence like many of its ex colonies in Africa still remain vassal states without independence in determing their military or financial or foreign policies.

Countries that were past colonies of France and were able to have independence in determming their own affairs have often done it through an abrasive rupture like Guinea or through military defeat as in Algeria or in Indochina. Unlike the English who actually leave their ex-colonies, the French rarely do. Based on its history.

There is nothing wrong with being a middling power so long as one recognizes that and works within the limitation of its power. The problem is that France is a middling power who thinks that it’s still a great power. Retaining control of many of its ex-colonies helps feed that illusions. But all illusions are eventually lost.

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cassowary
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Re: France's president now arrives in Noumea

Post by cassowary » Fri May 04, 2018 5:35 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 3:54 pm
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/in ... 4zdd6.html

When I last visited the island in 1982 it was, visibly and palpably, a hot spot of social and political tensions. I thought that things had simmered down since but from this report (above) it seems that the same old discontents are still bubbling below the surface.

The root cause of the discontent was easy to see. The whites lived well in Mediterranean style villas - the native Kamaks dwelled in improvised tin and wood shanties.
Reminds me of the Chinese in Indonesia. The disparity of wealth there between the Chinese and indigenous Indonesians caused the riot during the Asia crisis in the late 1990s and hundreds of Chinese were killed.

My gut feeling is that it is not the whites' fault that the Kanaks are poor. They, like the indigenous Indonesians, lack the qualities necessary to succeed in a modern society. Culture matters.

uche africanus
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Re: France's president arrives in Sydney

Post by uche africanus » Fri May 04, 2018 5:51 pm

Cass,
It is true that cultures matter and it is true also that cultures are changeable. Colonialism, though not a central reason, does cripple native economic independence. And the privilege enjoyed by colonialists and their wards approximates those of Roman Consuls.

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