Trump is no dangerous udiot.

Discussion of current events
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cassowary
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Re: Trump is no dangerous udiot.

Post by cassowary » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:52 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:17 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:13 am
Oh Sertorio, you are so wrong. Why is it so many leftists are on the side of dictators?. In the old days, many leftists loved Stalin. Today, people like you love Putin the prisoner.

The US remains in Europe with the approval of democratically elected governments to protect it from your favorite dictator Putin.

If you are right, why then do the Europeans not ask the US to leave?
We will...
When will that be? Why not now?

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump is no dangerous udiot.

Post by Sertorio » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:18 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:49 am
The truth is that Europe still wants US protection against Putin, the poisoner.
As far as Europe is concerned, Putin is 100 times better than Trump, and 200 times better than Hillary Clinton would have been... As to "protection", I hereby declare to give up any "protection" which may depend on the actions of the US!... The US may therefore ignore me, my property and my welfare, whatever situation may arise in Europe... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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cassowary
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Re: Trump is no dangerous udiot.

Post by cassowary » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:07 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:18 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:49 am
The truth is that Europe still wants US protection against Putin, the poisoner.
As far as Europe is concerned, Putin is 100 times better than Trump, and 200 times better than Hillary Clinton would have been... As to "protection", I hereby declare to give up any "protection" which may depend on the actions of the US!... The US may therefore ignore me, my property and my welfare, whatever situation may arise in Europe... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
That is silly. You are not a sovereign country. So it is not up to you. If you are truly a Portuguese as you claim, you have the right to ask your politicians to withdraw Portugal from NATO. That way, the US and other members have no obligation to defend Portugal.

By the way, how many Portuguese want to withdraw from NATO?

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump is no dangerous udiot.

Post by Sertorio » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:39 pm

cassowary wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:07 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:18 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:49 am
The truth is that Europe still wants US protection against Putin, the poisoner.
As far as Europe is concerned, Putin is 100 times better than Trump, and 200 times better than Hillary Clinton would have been... As to "protection", I hereby declare to give up any "protection" which may depend on the actions of the US!... The US may therefore ignore me, my property and my welfare, whatever situation may arise in Europe... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
That is silly. You are not a sovereign country. So it is not up to you. If you are truly a Portuguese as you claim, you have the right to ask your politicians to withdraw Portugal from NATO. That way, the US and other members have no obligation to defend Portugal.

By the way, how many Portuguese want to withdraw from NATO?
This issue has not been discussed in Portugal for several decades. Once it is, we can determine how many people would rather have Portugal leaving NATO. My feeling is that most people have not concerned themselves with this question, because Portugal has not been the target of any threat. But as we now have a company of special troops in the Afghanistan, under NATO, I could imagine that if by misfortune some of our soldiers were to die there, the feelings against NATO would rise very quickly.

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cassowary
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Re: Trump is no dangerous udiot.

Post by cassowary » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:53 pm

Sertorio,

If that misfortune occur in Afghan, the public will at most demand the return of the soldiers. I don't think they will call for withdrawal from NATO.

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Alexis
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Frequent error... there is no country named "Europe" :-)

Post by Alexis » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:05 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:26 am
The Yanks moved into Europe only because the Europeans were improvident enough to turn their continent into the seat of two horrible World wars.
Nope. It's just not true that Europeans "turned their continent into the seat of two horrible World wars".

Germans did.

There is no country named "Europe". An example is Germany, whose name is not "Europe".

cassowary wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:13 am
why then do the Europeans not ask the US to leave?
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:17 am
We will...
That's impossible. Europeans can't do that, because "Europe" is not the name of a country. Even the EU - which is not Europe - is no country!

French may - actually we did. France is a country whose name is not "Europe".

The name of other countries that may or will do so isn't yet known. One thing is sure though: it will not be "Europe".

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cassowary
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Re: Trump is no dangerous udiot.

Post by cassowary » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:20 am

Leaving aside who is to blame for two world wars, Germans are also Europeans. The various nation states are all part of Europe. So saying Europeans started two world wars is not incorrect.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Trump is no dangerous udiot.

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:00 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:30 pm
What you are really saying is that the US should not spend taxpayers' money to protect Europe, South Korea, Japan and elsewhere. Yours is the view of an isolationist. It is also why I love the US, which I view as a force for good.
Mine is the view of a non-interventionist, which is not the same thing. And yes, this isn't the 1950s, the U.S. shouldn't spend American money on defending wealthy countries who are perfectly capable of footing the bill for their own defence. But I'm not surprised you love it, since you're getting something for free that's paid for by others.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

neverfail
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Re: Frequent error... there is no country named "Europe" :-)

Post by neverfail » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:29 am

Alexis wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:05 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:26 am
The Yanks moved into Europe only because the Europeans were improvident enough to turn their continent into the seat of two horrible World wars.
Nope. It's just not true that Europeans "turned their continent into the seat of two horrible World wars".

Germans did.

There is no country named "Europe". An example is Germany, whose name is not "Europe".
Undeniably, the second war was inaugurated by an Austrian (by birth) ex-German army corporal who refused to accept that his side lost the First World War fair and square. But it is a slander to blame the First World War on the Germans. I seem to recall that it was a Bosnian Serb troublemaker named Gavrilo Princip who got that conflict going by murdering an Austrian archduke and his wife.

Nothing to do with German machinations.

Agreed, the First World War could not have been kept going for so long had it not been for Imperial Germany's military-industrial muscle. Yet it is worth remembering that German territory (East Prussia) was invaded by Russian forces before the German army invaded Russian territory.

As for France, well! France had improvidently made a pact with Czarist Russia thus setting itself up as a target for a German preemptive strike.

I agree that there is no country called "Europe". I even have doubts as to whether it should even legitimately be considered the name of a continent.

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Alexis
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Re: Frequent error... there is no country named "Europe" :-)

Post by Alexis » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:28 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:29 am
Undeniably, the second war was inaugurated by an Austrian (by birth) ex-German army corporal who refused to accept that his side lost the First World War fair and square. But it is a slander to blame the First World War on the Germans. I seem to recall that it was a Bosnian Serb troublemaker named Gavrilo Princip who got that conflict going by murdering an Austrian archduke and his wife.

Nothing to do with German machinations.
I refer you to historical studies of the German and Austrian decision to start WWI :)

This is not the topic of this thread, but WWI happened because of Germany and Austria. Neither Russia, France nor Britain had any responsibility in the inception of that war, and nothing they could have done could have stopped the Central Powers from starting it.

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