Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

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cassowary
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Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by cassowary » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:06 pm

Trump signals support for arming school staff

I had this in mind days ago and I am glad Trump is finally bringing it up. I think it will discourage mass shooters if potential killers know that someone might shoot back. The most vulnerable places are gun free zones. It means disarming the good guys.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:55 am

This isn't their job. Teachers already do far too much for too little pay and respect. And the idea that school districts will assume the liability for any of the hundred things that could go wrong is ludicrous. I mean, the response I saw from a teacher who is a friend of a friend on Facebook summed it up pretty well: "I'm not even allowed to change the thermostat!"

The problem isn't that there aren't enough guns. The problem isn't that there are too many guns. The problem isn't even mental illness. The problem is that, especially since the end of the second world war, a culture of fear has been cultivated in the U.S. that has led to an increasingly nihilistic culture where compassion and kindness are underrated and the ability to use force on others is seen as the default solution to every problem.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Milo
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by Milo » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:06 am

To another thread.
Last edited by Milo on Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Milo
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by Milo » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:35 am

An armed and trained professional was at the scene and didn't stop it.



Why would armed teachers do better?

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:41 am

Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:35 am
An armed and trained professional was at the scene and didn't stop it.
Brave Sir Robin ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
("I never!")
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
("You're lying!")
Swiftly taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Milo
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by Milo » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:56 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:41 am
Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:35 am
An armed and trained professional was at the scene and didn't stop it.
Brave Sir Robin ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
("I never!")
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
("You're lying!")
Swiftly taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!
This is the great myth underlying the entire American gun culture, that some steelie eyed gun owner will shoot the bad guy dead. It's a load of crap.

In this case Trump's has conveniently pointed that out.

neverfail
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by neverfail » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:00 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:55 am
This isn't their job. Teachers already do far too much for too little pay and respect. And the idea that school districts will assume the liability for any of the hundred things that could go wrong is ludicrous. I mean, the response I saw from a teacher who is a friend of a friend on Facebook summed it up pretty well: "I'm not even allowed to change the thermostat!"

The problem isn't that there aren't enough guns. The problem isn't that there are too many guns. The problem isn't even mental illness. The problem is that, especially since the end of the second world war, a culture of fear has been cultivated in the U.S. that has led to an increasingly nihilistic culture where compassion and kindness are underrated and the ability to use force on others is seen as the default solution to every problem.
Excellent observation, Steve. Thanks!

neverfail
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by neverfail » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:10 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:35 am
An armed and trained professional was at the scene and didn't stop it.

This is the great myth underlying the entire American gun culture, that some steelie eyed gun owner will shoot the bad guy dead. It's a load of crap.

In this case Trump's has conveniently pointed that out.
The "armed, trained professional" apparently valued his own life ahead of that of the school students and teachers he was supposed to be there to rescue. Me first, always!

When lauding the virtues of firearms these American gun enthusiasts never seem to take into account the flawed character of the individuals destined to use them.

Milo, can you shed any light as to why government policing agencies abroad (including in your country) can provide adequate law, order and civil peace whilst in the USA they feel the need to push this duty onto the shoulders if individual citizens - each armed "law enforcer" apparently a judge, jury and executioner unto himself!

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Milo
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by Milo » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:08 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:10 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:35 am
An armed and trained professional was at the scene and didn't stop it.

This is the great myth underlying the entire American gun culture, that some steelie eyed gun owner will shoot the bad guy dead. It's a load of crap.

In this case Trump's has conveniently pointed that out.
The "armed, trained professional" apparently valued his own life ahead of that of the school students and teachers he was supposed to be there to rescue. Me first, always!

When lauding the virtues of firearms these American gun enthusiasts never seem to take into account the flawed character of the individuals destined to use them.

Milo, can you shed any light as to why government policing agencies abroad (including in your country) can provide adequate law, order and civil peace whilst in the USA they feel the need to push this duty onto the shoulders if individual citizens - each armed "law enforcer" apparently a judge, jury and executioner unto himself!
Uniquely, as far as I know, the US leaves criminal justice to the states, so enforcement is often patchy, ad hoc and open to local corruption.

It's worse in the south, where laws can be a holdover from plantation times; those plantation owners owned people and so had complete power over them. For example, in some states today you can murder someone for trespassing and get away with it.

War Nerd wrote a pithy little piece about it.

"A decade after we defeated the Confederacy at the cost of 300,000 loyal Union soldiers’ lives, the same planter oligarchy was running the South again, terrorizing the Freedmen and women who were our only loyal allies during the war, making sure black people never got a chance to vote, running them off their farms, doing their best to recreate slavery without the name."

https://pando.com/2015/04/10/war-nerd-t ... en-hanged/

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Doc
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by Doc » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:32 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:08 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:10 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:35 am
An armed and trained professional was at the scene and didn't stop it.

This is the great myth underlying the entire American gun culture, that some steelie eyed gun owner will shoot the bad guy dead. It's a load of crap.

In this case Trump's has conveniently pointed that out.
The "armed, trained professional" apparently valued his own life ahead of that of the school students and teachers he was supposed to be there to rescue. Me first, always!

When lauding the virtues of firearms these American gun enthusiasts never seem to take into account the flawed character of the individuals destined to use them.

Milo, can you shed any light as to why government policing agencies abroad (including in your country) can provide adequate law, order and civil peace whilst in the USA they feel the need to push this duty onto the shoulders if individual citizens - each armed "law enforcer" apparently a judge, jury and executioner unto himself!
Uniquely, as far as I know, the US leaves criminal justice to the states, so enforcement is often patchy, ad hoc and open to local corruption.

It's worse in the south, where laws can be a holdover from plantation times; those plantation owners owned people and so had complete power over them. For example, in some states today you can murder someone for trespassing and get away with it.
So tell me Milo was it a hold over from "Plantation times" that Broward County intentionally refused to arrest students in its school system so it could defraud the State and Federal Government by bypassing State and Federal regulations on crime in schools in order to get extra grant money?

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/9668 ... 74784.html

4. What I stumbled upon was a Broward County law enforcement system in a state of conflict. The Broward County School Board and District Superintendent, entered into a political agreement with Broward County Law enforcement officials to stop arresting students for crimes.
5. The motive was simple. The school system administrators wanted to "improve their statistics" and gain state and federal grant money for improvements therein.
Which explains how the Police could have been called to Cruz's home 18 times and as many as 32 incidents where people reported Cruz to the police and nothing was done. I wonder how many dollars the Broward COunty school system got for each dead child?
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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