Polar Silk Road

Discussion of current events
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Polar Silk Road

Post by Doc » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:47 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:23 pm
Canada as "the next big Asian power"

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/a ... sian-power

". . . the Northwest Passage as an international strait . . ."
There has been a silk road between China and the Americas for centuries. It is called the Pacific. China has been trying to figure out how to lay claim on parts of the arctic for quite a while. This seems to me to be part of that effort.
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

neverfail
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: China: a power with a bruised ego.

Post by neverfail » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:13 pm

Doc wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:47 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:23 pm
Canada as "the next big Asian power"

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/a ... sian-power

". . . the Northwest Passage as an international strait . . ."
There has been a silk road between China and the Americas for centuries. It is called the Pacific. China has been trying to figure out how to lay claim on parts of the arctic for quite a while. This seems to me to be part of that effort.
Somehow, I do not believe that the PRC would try to build artificial islands in the Arctic Sea the way they have in the South China Sea and them spuriously claim sovereignty over them and the surrounding waters.

Doc, I am not in sympathy with their ambitions, but like all other people's the Chinese are informed and guided by their own historical experience; and theirs is a very long one. Prominent in the collective memory of the Chinese and throbbing like a septic wound is their memory of their "century of humiliation"; largely inflicted upon their nation by foreign powers - beginning with the First Opium War in 1839-40. The PRC now seeks atonement by restoring itself to what it considers to be its rightful place within the context of global power. Its recent beligerence can and should be seen in that context.

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: China: a power with a bruised ego.

Post by Doc » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:54 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:13 pm
Doc wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:47 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:23 pm
Canada as "the next big Asian power"

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/a ... sian-power

". . . the Northwest Passage as an international strait . . ."
There has been a silk road between China and the Americas for centuries. It is called the Pacific. China has been trying to figure out how to lay claim on parts of the arctic for quite a while. This seems to me to be part of that effort.
Somehow, I do not believe that the PRC would try to build artificial islands in the Arctic Sea the way they have in the South China Sea and them spuriously claim sovereignty over them and the surrounding waters.

Doc, I am not in sympathy with their ambitions, but like all other people's the Chinese are informed and guided by their own historical experience; and theirs is a very long one. Prominent in the collective memory of the Chinese and throbbing like a septic wound is their memory of their "century of humiliation"; largely inflicted upon their nation by foreign powers - beginning with the First Opium War in 1839-40. The PRC now seeks atonement by restoring itself to what it considers to be its rightful place within the context of global power. Its recent beligerence can and should be seen in that context.

As with the South "China" Sea the Chinese are trying to get a wedge under the door.


https://www.maritime-executive.com/edit ... tually-say
China to Earth: We have a situation

China's first move is to claim that "the Arctic situation now goes beyond its original inter-Arctic States or regional nature." The Arctic is no longer just a "region." It's a situation, and situations demand responses. Furthermore, the Arctic has a vital bearing on "the survival, the development, and the shared future for mankind." Those are some pretty big stakes, but China is up to the task.

That's because China emphasizes that it is "a champion for the development of a community with a shared future for mankind." The globally-minded country (implicitly in contrast to the selfish "America First") is "an active participant, builder and contributor in Arctic affairs who has spared no efforts to contribute its wisdom to the development of the Arctic region." China sees itself as basically shouldering a whole lot of responsibility to improve the Arctic. If the North ever needed a superhero, it has one now in Beijing. The Arctic is now a situation that demands a response, and responses only come from responsible actors. China makes the case that it is one. It didn't back out of the Paris Agreement, in any case, so it can probably be trusted more than America.
Never mind that CHina's behavior in the SOuth China Sea is completely contrary to the argument they are making now about the Arctic Ocean
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

Jim the Moron
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:51 pm

Re: Polar Silk Road

Post by Jim the Moron » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:38 pm

From the article linked by Doc -

"China wants to develop resources lawfully, and it also seeks to develop three Arctic shipping passages (along Russia, Canada, and over the top of the North Pole). Slyly, it never refers to the first two passages as the Northern Sea Route or the Northwest Passage as they're more commonly known."

neverfail
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Polar Silk Road

Post by neverfail » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:38 am

China is not the only country that could get into the game of developing shipping passages over the Arctic Sea. There is likely to be a rush of maritime countries in the northern hemisphere doing the same if the route proves to be viable.

What no one has mentioned is that the Arctic ice is shrinking because of global warming. That will likely have other unwonted consequences elsewhere that are likely to more than cancel out the economic benefits of such a new shipping route.

User avatar
SteveFoerster
Posts: 1019
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, USA and Dominica, West Indies
Contact:

Re: Polar Silk Road

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:59 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:38 am
China is not the only country that could get into the game of developing shipping passages over the Arctic Sea. There is likely to be a rush of maritime countries in the northern hemisphere doing the same if the route proves to be viable.

What no one has mentioned is that the Arctic ice is shrinking because of global warming. That will likely have other unwonted consequences elsewhere that are likely to more than cancel out the economic benefits of such a new shipping route.
I don't think anyone is saying that climate change is great because it opens up the Northwest Passage -- other than the Russians behind closed doors, maybe, and if they are I scarcely blame them.

But globally the thrust of the response to climate change seems to be passing from trying to stop it to trying to adapt to it, and in that sense, developing shorter shipping routes makes sense.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

neverfail
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Polar Silk Road: look on the bright side.

Post by neverfail » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:29 am

Arctic sea routes could ease Malacca Strait security issue

http://www.atimes.com/article/arctic-se ... ity-issue/

Yes, it could also rob Singapore of a certain amount of business. Singapore, do not forget, is a major global oil marketing and refining centre.

But still, think of the possibility of founding another Singapore on the tip of Alaska or on Russia's Chuchi peninsula.

:D

User avatar
SteveFoerster
Posts: 1019
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, USA and Dominica, West Indies
Contact:

Re: Polar Silk Road: look on the bright side.

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:02 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:29 am
Arctic sea routes could ease Malacca Strait security issue

http://www.atimes.com/article/arctic-se ... ity-issue/

Yes, it could also rob Singapore of a certain amount of business. Singapore, do not forget, is a major global oil marketing and refining centre.

But still, think of the possibility of founding another Singapore on the tip of Alaska or on Russia's Chuchi peninsula.

:D
Well, Alaska does have an independence movement....
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

neverfail
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Polar Silk Road: look on the bright side.

Post by neverfail » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:21 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:02 pm

Well, Alaska does have an independence movement....
Based upon the myopic supposition that the oil revenue will be with them forever , I suppose? :(

Jim the Moron
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:51 pm

Re: Polar Silk Road: look on the bright side.

Post by Jim the Moron » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:25 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:21 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:02 pm

Well, Alaska does have an independence movement....
Based upon the myopic supposition that the oil revenue will be with them forever , I suppose? :(
They anticipate tapping into their huge seal blubber reserves . . .

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cassowary and 4 guests