State of the Union

Discussion of current events
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Doc
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State of the Union

Post by Doc » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:01 pm



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“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Re: State of the Union

Post by Doc » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:55 am

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“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Re: State of the Union

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:56 am

I didn't watch it. What did they do that was so unambiguously un-American?
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neverfail
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Re: State of the Union

Post by neverfail » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:02 pm

Doc, I only caught a glimpse of Trump's address.

I would like you to know that presently I could not care less about your Democrats Party - which of course are out of office and peobably seething with frustration. What I care about is the current state of the American union.

Was Trump being truthful or was the address just an opportunity for Trump to big note himself?

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Re: State of the Union

Post by Doc » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:51 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:02 pm
Doc, I only caught a glimpse of Trump's address.

I would like you to know that presently I could not care less about your Democrats Party - which of course are out of office and peobably seething with frustration. What I care about is the current state of the American union.

Was Trump being truthful or was the address just an opportunity for Trump to big note himself?
Neverfail and SteveFoerster :


He was conciliatory and pulled his punches. It was a positive speech. Some are saying it was better than any SOTU that Reagan gave. But the democrats by their own design refused to applaud in many places where they look very bad not to applaud. They were in effect protesting job grow, historically low Black and Hispanic unemployment, among many many other things during the 80 minute speech. He even called for cooperation with the democrats and they scowled. Many of the Democrats appeared to want to applaud but the Dem leadership had made it plain they were not supposed to.

It was incredibly bad optics in any event. They had all the look of hating America.
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Re: good news that the US is undergoing revival.

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:34 pm

Doc wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:51 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:02 pm
Doc, I only caught a glimpse of Trump's address.

I would like you to know that presently I could not care less about your Democrats Party - which of course are out of office and peobably seething with frustration. What I care about is the current state of the American union.

Was Trump being truthful or was the address just an opportunity for Trump to big note himself?
Neverfail and SteveFoerster :


He was conciliatory and pulled his punches. It was a positive speech. Some are saying it was better than any SOTU that Reagan gave. But the democrats by their own design refused to applaud in many places where they look very bad not to applaud. They were in effect protesting job grow, historically low Black and Hispanic unemployment, among many many other things during the 80 minute speech. He even called for cooperation with the democrats and they scowled. Many of the Democrats appeared to want to applaud but the Dem leadership had made it plain they were not supposed to.

It was incredibly bad optics in any event. They had all the look of hating America.
Thanks doc.

Agreed that it seems to have been bad form on the part of the congressional Democrats that reflects badly on their leadership. (Would Nancy Pelosi have had something to do with organising it?)

Hating America? I think not! Just partisan political pantomime. Childish sour grapes.

I have heard that things have and are on the up and up in the US re. domestic economic revival. Might I humbly suggest that this represents the rebound from the long recession that the US fell into following the 2008 GFC and then had to work its way through over the years coinciding with Obama's 8 year incumbency. The recent Trump tax reform might have helped things along as a morale booster by inspiring additional confidence (though I think it is too soon for these to have had any economic impact fiscally). Succinctly, Trump was lucky in his timing in being elected POTUS when he was. Governments are always loved when they preside over rising fortunes.

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Re: good news that the US is undergoing revival.

Post by Doc » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:14 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:34 pm
Doc wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:51 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:02 pm
Doc, I only caught a glimpse of Trump's address.

I would like you to know that presently I could not care less about your Democrats Party - which of course are out of office and peobably seething with frustration. What I care about is the current state of the American union.

Was Trump being truthful or was the address just an opportunity for Trump to big note himself?
Neverfail and SteveFoerster :


He was conciliatory and pulled his punches. It was a positive speech. Some are saying it was better than any SOTU that Reagan gave. But the democrats by their own design refused to applaud in many places where they look very bad not to applaud. They were in effect protesting job grow, historically low Black and Hispanic unemployment, among many many other things during the 80 minute speech. He even called for cooperation with the democrats and they scowled. Many of the Democrats appeared to want to applaud but the Dem leadership had made it plain they were not supposed to.

It was incredibly bad optics in any event. They had all the look of hating America.
Thanks doc.

Agreed that it seems to have been bad form on the part of the congressional Democrats that reflects badly on their leadership. (Would Nancy Pelosi have had something to do with organising it?)

Hating America? I think not! Just partisan political pantomime. Childish sour grapes.

I have heard that things have and are on the up and up in the US re. domestic economic revival. Might I humbly suggest that this represents the rebound from the long recession that the US fell into following the 2008 GFC and then had to work its way through over the years coinciding with Obama's 8 year incumbency. The recent Trump tax reform might have helped things along as a morale booster by inspiring additional confidence (though I think it is too soon for these to have had any economic impact fiscally). Succinctly, Trump was lucky in his timing in being elected POTUS when he was. Governments are always loved when they preside over rising fortunes.
THe Democrat leadership's problems started with HIllary rigging the primaries and have continued into sendition against Trump with Obama's help.

In the former HIllary would have won the Democratic nomination without rigging things against Bernie Sanders. Much like Nixon would have won, and in fact did win the 1972 election without bugging the DNC at the Watergate hotel. Those were crimes of ego.

Where Nixon had the support of his own 1st term administration Hillary had the Obama Admin to help her cheat.

But the problem for the current Dem leadership with in their own party is that the Former Bernie Bros are not about to forget the game was rigged against Bernie Sanders. SO the Dem party's center has shifted far to the left. So they have to at least pretend to be "Resisting" their second problem comes from Hillary and Obama plus a whole cast of others trying to rig the election against Trump. It is not just Trump's constitutional rights that have been assaulted but the constitutional rights of all Americans by denying their choice of leader in a very corrupt conspircy. The name for that is treason. The only crime enumerated in the US constitution. Which is in the constitution because Benedict Arnold tried to sell out the rights of his fellow Americans that they had fought so hard to establish. Just like the Traitors of today have been trying to sell out the rights of modern day Americans.

In trying to save the democratic party its leadership is participating in Treason. This is why the NYSE went down by 665 points today. The uncertainty of a future with many unknowns that could even end up being a civil war.
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Re: good news that the US is undergoing revival.

Post by neverfail » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:56 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:14 pm

THe Democrat leadership's problems started with HIllary rigging the primaries and have continued into sendition against Trump with Obama's help.

In the former HIllary would have won the Democratic nomination without rigging things against Bernie Sanders. Much like Nixon would have won, and in fact did win the 1972 election without bugging the DNC at the Watergate hotel. Those were crimes of ego.

Where Nixon had the support of his own 1st term administration Hillary had the Obama Admin to help her cheat.

But the problem for the current Dem leadership with in their own party is that the Former Bernie Bros are not about to forget the game was rigged against Bernie Sanders. SO the Dem party's center has shifted far to the left. So they have to at least pretend to be "Resisting" their second problem comes from Hillary and Obama plus a whole cast of others trying to rig the election against Trump. It is not just Trump's constitutional rights that have been assaulted but the constitutional rights of all Americans by denying their choice of leader in a very corrupt conspircy. The name for that is treason. The only crime enumerated in the US constitution. Which is in the constitution because Benedict Arnold tried to sell out the rights of his fellow Americans that they had fought so hard to establish. Just like the Traitors of today have been trying to sell out the rights of modern day Americans.

In trying to save the democratic party its leadership is participating in Treason. This is why the NYSE went down by 665 points today. The uncertainty of a future with many unknowns that could even end up being a civil war.
Thanks doc for what appears to be a sober, if discomforting, assessment of the situation.

I have lived my entire lifespan in a world where the USA was (firstly) The West's champion in the long standoff against totalitarian Soviet global ambitions then (later) the World's unchallenged leading power bar none. While (as you know) I have lamented many of the policies by and from Washington as well as the shortcomings of America itself I have still taken for granted the distant "presence" of the USA as a pillar of strength in an otherwise uncertain world. The idea that this colossus could degenerate into a civil war over domestic politics just fills me with dread.

I hope that it never happens doc. Not only for the safety and wellbeing of my American friends but because such an implosion of American power would release destructive forces worldwide. I fear that a new US civil war, unlike your last one, would rapidly project itself into a global conflict.

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Re: good news that the US is undergoing revival.

Post by Doc » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:25 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:56 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:14 pm

THe Democrat leadership's problems started with HIllary rigging the primaries and have continued into sendition against Trump with Obama's help.

In the former HIllary would have won the Democratic nomination without rigging things against Bernie Sanders. Much like Nixon would have won, and in fact did win the 1972 election without bugging the DNC at the Watergate hotel. Those were crimes of ego.

Where Nixon had the support of his own 1st term administration Hillary had the Obama Admin to help her cheat.

But the problem for the current Dem leadership with in their own party is that the Former Bernie Bros are not about to forget the game was rigged against Bernie Sanders. SO the Dem party's center has shifted far to the left. So they have to at least pretend to be "Resisting" their second problem comes from Hillary and Obama plus a whole cast of others trying to rig the election against Trump. It is not just Trump's constitutional rights that have been assaulted but the constitutional rights of all Americans by denying their choice of leader in a very corrupt conspircy. The name for that is treason. The only crime enumerated in the US constitution. Which is in the constitution because Benedict Arnold tried to sell out the rights of his fellow Americans that they had fought so hard to establish. Just like the Traitors of today have been trying to sell out the rights of modern day Americans.

In trying to save the democratic party its leadership is participating in Treason. This is why the NYSE went down by 665 points today. The uncertainty of a future with many unknowns that could even end up being a civil war.
Thanks doc for what appears to be a sober, if discomforting, assessment of the situation.

I have lived my entire lifespan in a world where the USA was (firstly) The West's champion in the long standoff against totalitarian Soviet global ambitions then (later) the World's unchallenged leading power bar none. While (as you know) I have lamented many of the policies by and from Washington as well as the shortcomings of America itself I have still taken for granted the distant "presence" of the USA as a pillar of strength in an otherwise uncertain world. The idea that this colossus could degenerate into a civil war over domestic politics just fills me with dread.

I hope that it never happens doc. Not only for the safety and wellbeing of my American friends but because such an implosion of American power would release destructive forces worldwide. I fear that a new US civil war, unlike your last one, would rapidly project itself into a global conflict.
I don't think it will come to a civil war. Probably the most extreme outcome would be that parts of the three pacific coast state will succeed and either join Mexico are create a military alliance with ChIna or North Korea and become client states of which ever. .
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Re: good news that the US is undergoing revival.

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:46 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:25 pm
I don't think it will come to a civil war. Probably the most extreme outcome would be that parts of the three pacific coast state will succeed and either join Mexico are create a military alliance with ChIna or North Korea and become client states of which ever. .
FFS, no one is seceding over domestic policy. And in the unthinkable event that the Pacific states broke away, they'd separately still be one of the most powerful countries on Earth.
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