A-Justin Canada's International trade.

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neverfail
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A-Justin Canada's International trade.

Post by neverfail » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 am

Canadian PM Justin Trudeau does a double backflip on Canada joining the trans-Pacific Partnership.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-co ... rship.html

He could have signed Canada up at the Danang meeting in Vietnam last year but for reasons unknown said "no". So what is going on over in Canuck country to make Trudeau so devious?

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Milo
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Re: A-Justin Canada's International trade.

Post by Milo » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:42 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 am
Canadian PM Justin Trudeau does a double backflip on Canada joining the trans-Pacific Partnership.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-co ... rship.html

He could have signed Canada up at the Danang meeting in Vietnam last year but for reasons unknown said "no". So what is going on over in Canuck country to make Trudeau so devious?
I am afraid that I can shed no light on this. TPP had a lot of opposition from a broad spectrum here but I have no idea if they are a majority.

Sometimes I find these trade agreements are a bit of a fetish with political leaders.

neverfail
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Re: A-Justin Canada's International trade.

Post by neverfail » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:18 am

Milo wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:42 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 am
Canadian PM Justin Trudeau does a double backflip on Canada joining the trans-Pacific Partnership.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-co ... rship.html

He could have signed Canada up at the Danang meeting in Vietnam last year but for reasons unknown said "no". So what is going on over in Canuck country to make Trudeau so devious?
I am afraid that I can shed no light on this. TPP had a lot of opposition from a broad spectrum here but I have no idea if they are a majority.

Sometimes I find these trade agreements are a bit of a fetish with political leaders.
I sometimes wonder whether Trump's opposition to the US being a member of this grouping has washed over into Canada: giving pause there - even taking into account that Canada does not follow the US in all things.

Out here both our Government and Opposition parties are all for it. I foresee that Whilst the US and Canada would both gain something from membership, Australia stands to gain enormously. Hence the enthusiasm.

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Sertorio
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Re: A-Justin Canada's International trade.

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:24 am

Milo wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:42 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 am
Canadian PM Justin Trudeau does a double backflip on Canada joining the trans-Pacific Partnership.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-co ... rship.html

He could have signed Canada up at the Danang meeting in Vietnam last year but for reasons unknown said "no". So what is going on over in Canuck country to make Trudeau so devious?
I am afraid that I can shed no light on this. TPP had a lot of opposition from a broad spectrum here but I have no idea if they are a majority.

Sometimes I find these trade agreements are a bit of a fetish with political leaders.
The trouble with free trade agreements is not that they free trade, but that they submit the weaker parties to the stronger ones, making trade disproportionately more beneficial to the latter. A proper free trade agreement should allow the weaker parties to apply some temporary protectionist measures in respect of vital sectors of their economy.

neverfail
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Re: A-Justin Canada's International trade.

Post by neverfail » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:48 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:24 am
Milo wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:42 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 am
Canadian PM Justin Trudeau does a double backflip on Canada joining the trans-Pacific Partnership.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-co ... rship.html

He could have signed Canada up at the Danang meeting in Vietnam last year but for reasons unknown said "no". So what is going on over in Canuck country to make Trudeau so devious?
I am afraid that I can shed no light on this. TPP had a lot of opposition from a broad spectrum here but I have no idea if they are a majority.

Sometimes I find these trade agreements are a bit of a fetish with political leaders.
The trouble with free trade agreements is not that they free trade, but that they submit the weaker parties to the stronger ones, making trade disproportionately more beneficial to the latter. A proper free trade agreement should allow the weaker parties to apply some temporary protectionist measures in respect of vital sectors of their economy.
A proper free trade agreement would rely on market forces. Were all governments to allow this instead of seeking privileged advantage there would be no need for formal agreements.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: A-Justin Canada's International trade.

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:47 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:24 am
A proper free trade agreement should allow the weaker parties to apply some temporary protectionist measures in respect of vital sectors of their economy.
So, we can add "free trade" to the list of terms the definition of which you don't know.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Milo
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Re: A-Justin Canada's International trade.

Post by Milo » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:09 pm

Many globalization types say that world trade is inevitable, so we should encourage it. That sounds to me like an argument to be protectionist.

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cassowary
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Re: A-Justin Canada's International trade.

Post by cassowary » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:20 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:24 am
Milo wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:42 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 am
Canadian PM Justin Trudeau does a double backflip on Canada joining the trans-Pacific Partnership.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-co ... rship.html

He could have signed Canada up at the Danang meeting in Vietnam last year but for reasons unknown said "no". So what is going on over in Canuck country to make Trudeau so devious?
I am afraid that I can shed no light on this. TPP had a lot of opposition from a broad spectrum here but I have no idea if they are a majority.

Sometimes I find these trade agreements are a bit of a fetish with political leaders.
The trouble with free trade agreements is not that they free trade, but that they submit the weaker parties to the stronger ones, making trade disproportionately more beneficial to the latter. A proper free trade agreement should allow the weaker parties to apply some temporary protectionist measures in respect of vital sectors of their economy.
Neverfail and Sertorio,

It is my opinion that small countries have more to gain from free trade than larger countries. That is because our own markets are small and we need the rest of the world to buy our stuff.

So Canada, like Australia, should embrace the TPP. In the case of the US and China, however, it is to their advantage to negotiate bilateral agreements. A small country with say 25 million population (like Australia and Canada) can sign an FTA with the US and gain access to a rich market of 325 million people.

The US will gain access to only 25 million people. So the US has an advantage in trade negotiations. Same for China which has stayed out of the TPP. Had the US remained in the TTP, small countries can get a better deal from the US and Japan because they piggy-backing on a larger population. Small countries get the same terms from Japan as the US does. Small countries also get the same terms from the US as Japan does if Trump had not withdrawn from the TPP.

neverfail
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Re: A-Justin Canada's International trade.

Post by neverfail » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:47 pm

Milo wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:09 pm
Many globalization types say that world trade is inevitable, so we should encourage it. That sounds to me like an argument to be protectionist.
Sorry Milo, but based upon experience I beg to differ.

I am convinced that some countries are always bound to do better out of international free trade than others: but tariff protectionism is self-defeating for everyone.

I live in a country where within living memory we had a blanket regime of tariff protection for our manufacturing industries that was among the World's highest. The fact that our living standards did not descend to third world levels was, I am now convinced with then wisdom of hindsight, due the fact that we retained several very cost-effective food and raw materials export industries that earned the hard currency needed to pay for our essential imports.

In effect, these few were subsidising the others.

Tariff protection meant high costs and often slack quality control standards detrimental to consumers. It was equivalent to a tax on everyone to prop up the fortunes of certain regional and corporate interests. Unfair to the many paying for it.

Thanks of approx. two decades of dismantling the old tariff barriers and state subsidies we now have one of the World's most open economies; have enjoyed decades of growth and the global ranking of our average real incomes and living standards have soared.

The one cloud in this otherwise clear blue sky is that the number of low skilled jobs in the workplace have shrunk considerably whilst those in the professional and higher technical categories have multiplied. So now we have a stubborn pool of structural unemployment the likes of which we did not have back in the 1950's and the 1960's before the oil shock of the 1970's hit us, making continued tariff protection untenable.

There is no turning the clock back. Even if they were to restore tariff protection we would still have structural unemployment.

Milo; don't swallow the myth that tariff protection is the answer. It works about as well as a lead life jacket for a drowning man.

neverfail
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Re: A mea culpa!

Post by neverfail » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:38 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:18 am

Out here both our Government and Opposition parties are all for it. I foresee that Whilst the US and Canada would both gain something from membership, Australia stands to gain enormously. Hence the enthusiasm.
I regret to say that I inadvertently misinformed you with the above quote. I overlooked the fact that Australia already has free trade treaties operating with most of the countries that are applying to join the TPP: so Australia would only make Marginal gains from it. Canada would likely profit from it more.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/canadas ... -partners/

Below is a list showcasing 15 of Canada’s top trading partners, countries that imported the most Canadian shipments by dollar value during 2016. Also shown is each import country’s percentage of total Canadian exports.

United States: US$296.5 billion (76.2% of total Canadian exports)
China: $15.8 billion (4.1%)
United Kingdom: $12.9 billion (3.3%)
Japan: $8.1 billion (2.1%)
Mexico: $5.8 billion (1.5%)
South Korea: $3.3 billion (0.8%)
India: $3.0 billion (0.8%)
Germany: $3.0 billion (0.8%)
France: $2.6 billion (0.7%)
Belgium: $2.4 billion (0.6%)
Netherlands: $2.1 billion (0.55%)
Italy: $1.8 billion (0.45%)
Hong Kong: $1.8 billion (0.45%)
Brazil: $1.5 billion (0.4%)
Australia: $1.5 billion (0.38%)


(My comment) Of the above 15 top foreign trading partners I count six as Asia-Pacific countries (including my own). Between them they account for only a pitiful 8.63% of Canada's external trade (11.2% for all Asia). It seems to me that there must be plenty of slack to take up.

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