What is going on in Iran - A new uprising?

Discussion of current events
User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 1272
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: What is going on in Iran - A new uprising?

Post by cassowary » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:02 pm
The protests have petered out. They were not a revolutionary upheaval nor even the beginnings of one. Just a cry of pain from an unhappy populace with no agenda for reform nor any shared vision of change - nor any visible leadership to organise and direct them.

If (as Cassowary gleefully speculates) agents of the US or Israel played any part in fomenting this recent unrest then their governments were ill advised in backing such a loser - and they did the people of Iran no favour as well.
Aw, Nevefail. You want the Mullahcracy to remain in power. It is embarrassing for the left if they fall lest Trump claims some of the credit. People are contrasting Trump's robust attitude towards the Iranian protestors as compared to oBUMa's wimpy behavior.

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 1272
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Comparing the left's response with the right

Post by cassowary » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:58 am

Here are two article. One is written by leftist Pepe Escobar of the Asia Times. The other by Ivan Sheehan, whom I never heard of but gave right wing talking points.

"Why there won't be a Iranian Revolution" by Pepe Escobar

T
alking to young people in places such as Kashan or Mashhad showed me how solid the popular base was behind the Islamic Republic experiment.
Ok. So according to Pepe, the Iranian people are solidly behind the Islamic state of Iran after talking to many young people.. Now let's see what rightist article says.

Trump is witnessing an unfolding Iranian revolution — time to act by Sheehan
Protestors are chanting slogans indicative of a revolution: “Death to the dictator,” “Death to (Hassan) Rouhani,” “Don’t be afraid, we are all together,” “Forget about Syria, think about us,” “Not Gaza, nor Lebanon, my life for Iran.”
So while Pepe said that the people he talked to were solidly behind the Islamic regime, Sheehan says that the people were chanting "death to the dictator." He advocates that Trump takes the side of the people and help overthrow the Islamic regime.

The left wants the Iranian regime to survive because Trump acted 180 degrees differently from oBUMa in 2008 when the exact same thing happen. It is embarrassing if US support for the demonstrators results in the dictators being overthrown. Once again, the left finds itself on the side of dictators and not the people.

neverfail
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: What is going on in Iran - A new uprising?

Post by neverfail » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:04 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:02 pm
The protests have petered out. They were not a revolutionary upheaval nor even the beginnings of one. Just a cry of pain from an unhappy populace with no agenda for reform nor any shared vision of change - nor any visible leadership to organise and direct them.

If (as Cassowary gleefully speculates) agents of the US or Israel played any part in fomenting this recent unrest then their governments were ill advised in backing such a loser - and they did the people of Iran no favour as well.
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am
Aw, Nevefail. You want the Mullahcracy to remain in power.
Did I say that? I have studied the course of revolutionary upheavals worldwide and too often the new order that emerges is often worse than the one it superseded.

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am
It is embarrassing for the left if they fall lest Trump claims some of the credit. People are contrasting Trump's robust attitude towards the Iranian protestors as compared to oBUMa's wimpy behavior.
Trump is a posturing buffoon who acts unaware of the consequences that might flow from them. Obama with all of his shortcomings conducted policy with a steadier hand.

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 1272
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: What is going on in Iran - A new uprising?

Post by cassowary » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:44 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:04 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:02 pm
The protests have petered out. They were not a revolutionary upheaval nor even the beginnings of one. Just a cry of pain from an unhappy populace with no agenda for reform nor any shared vision of change - nor any visible leadership to organise and direct them.

If (as Cassowary gleefully speculates) agents of the US or Israel played any part in fomenting this recent unrest then their governments were ill advised in backing such a loser - and they did the people of Iran no favour as well.
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am
Aw, Nevefail. You want the Mullahcracy to remain in power.
Did I say that? I have studied the course of revolutionary upheavals worldwide and too often the new order that emerges is often worse than the one it superseded.
That's true when leftist revolutionaries take over. Eg Lenin/Stalin overthrew the Czar. Castro overthrew the Batista regime.

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am
It is embarrassing for the left if they fall lest Trump claims some of the credit. People are contrasting Trump's robust attitude towards the Iranian protestors as compared to oBUMa's wimpy behavior.
Trump is a posturing buffoon who acts unaware of the consequences that might flow from them. Obama with all of his shortcomings conducted policy with a steadier hand.
His buffoonish behavior persuaded NATO allies to increase their defense spending. He succeeded in destroying ISIS while oBUMa's premature withdrawal resulted in ISIS conquering a swath of Iraq and Syria. oBUMa's "steadier hand" drew red lines he had no courage to enforce.

neverfail
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: What is going on in Iran - A new uprising?

Post by neverfail » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:33 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:04 am
]
The protests have petered out. They were not a revolutionary upheaval nor even the beginnings of one. Just a cry of pain from an unhappy populace with no agenda for reform nor any shared vision of change - nor any visible leadership to organise and direct them.

If (as Cassowary gleefully speculates) agents of the US or Israel played any part in fomenting this recent unrest then their governments were ill advised in backing such a loser - and they did the people of Iran no favour as well.
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am
Aw, Nevefail. You want the Mullahcracy to remain in power.
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:04 am
Did I say that? I have studied the course of revolutionary upheavals worldwide and too often the new order that emerges is often worse than the one it superseded.
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am
That's true when leftist revolutionaries take over. Eg Lenin/Stalin overthrew the Czar. Castro overthrew the Batista regime. .
You are out of your depth on this topic Cass. Any revolutionary upheaval is by its nature left wing. When it is not then it stands to reason that the disorder is not a revolution but by definition something else.

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am
It is embarrassing for the left if they fall lest Trump claims some of the credit. People are contrasting Trump's robust attitude towards the Iranian protestors as compared to oBUMa's wimpy behavior.
Trump is a posturing buffoon who acts unaware of the consequences that might flow from them. Obama with all of his shortcomings conducted policy with a steadier hand.

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:44 am
His buffoonish behavior persuaded NATO allies to increase their defense spending.
What for? I was unaware that Europe was under imminent threat of invasion. The traditionally low military spending by the Europeans is (apart from wishing to avoid another arms race) a sign that they do not feel threatened from any force outside of Europe's bounds.
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:44 am
He succeeded in destroying ISIS while oBUMa's premature withdrawal resulted in ISIS conquering a swath of Iraq and Syria.
Well, behind him lingered the memory of George Bush's catastrophic military interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Us forces are still not out of this second embroilago. Understandable if Obama was elected on a pledge not to mire the US down in similarly expensive, futile acts of gung-ho military adventurism in the Middle East.
Trump won all by himself eh? I thought that (respectively) the Iraqi army; the Kurds; the Syrian government forces; the Russians and the Turks did all of the fighting there.
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:44 am
oBUMa's "steadier hand" drew red lines he had no courage to enforce.
And of course the lack of support Obama got from Congress (Republican controlled and out to scalp him) and elsewhere had nothing to do with it, I suppose?


I still felt a lot safer with Obama in charge than I do with this clown making waves.

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 1272
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: What is going on in Iran - A new uprising?

Post by cassowary » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:35 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:33 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:04 am
]
The protests have petered out. They were not a revolutionary upheaval nor even the beginnings of one. Just a cry of pain from an unhappy populace with no agenda for reform nor any shared vision of change - nor any visible leadership to organise and direct them.

If (as Cassowary gleefully speculates) agents of the US or Israel played any part in fomenting this recent unrest then their governments were ill advised in backing such a loser - and they did the people of Iran no favour as well.
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am
Aw, Nevefail. You want the Mullahcracy to remain in power.
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:04 am
Did I say that? I have studied the course of revolutionary upheavals worldwide and too often the new order that emerges is often worse than the one it superseded.
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am
That's true when leftist revolutionaries take over. Eg Lenin/Stalin overthrew the Czar. Castro overthrew the Batista regime. .
You are out of your depth on this topic Cass. Any revolutionary upheaval is by its nature left wing. When it is not then it stands to reason that the disorder is not a revolution but by definition something else.
Not the American revolution. It was led by men who understood that property rights are to be respected. Hardly a Socialist notion. George Washington wanted independence from the British. Dissatisfaction in the colonies was a result of British taxes. He was one of the richest men in America, the Donald Trump of his time, who understood that it is commerce that creates wealth and all businessmen hate high taxes. "Taxation without Representation is tyranny.", was the slogan against the British. The modern-day Tea Party movement is a reminder of America's capitalist roots.

The Founding Fathers gave the vote to only those with property based on the sensible idea that those who pay taxes should be the ones who decide how that money is to be spent. If taxation without representation is tyranny, then representation without paying taxes is also tyranny.

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:39 am
It is embarrassing for the left if they fall lest Trump claims some of the credit. People are contrasting Trump's robust attitude towards the Iranian protestors as compared to oBUMa's wimpy behavior.
Trump is a posturing buffoon who acts unaware of the consequences that might flow from them. Obama with all of his shortcomings conducted policy with a steadier hand.

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:44 am
His buffoonish behavior persuaded NATO allies to increase their defense spending.
What for? I was unaware that Europe was under imminent threat of invasion. The traditionally low military spending by the Europeans is (apart from wishing to avoid another arms race) a sign that they do not feel threatened from any force outside of Europe's bounds.
Obviously, the Europeans don't agree with you. As a result of Trump's threat not to protect Europe from Russia, they have agreed to increase defense spending instead of freeloading on the American taxpayer to protect them from the Russians. Careful, you are starting to sound like Sertorio. Every American President had asked the Europeans to increase defense spending, but only Trump succeeded thanks to his unconventional method.
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:44 am
He succeeded in destroying ISIS while oBUMa's premature withdrawal resulted in ISIS conquering a swath of Iraq and Syria.
Well, behind him lingered the memory of George Bush's catastrophic military interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Us forces are still not out of this second embroilago. Understandable if Obama was elected on a pledge not to mire the US down in similarly expensive, futile acts of gung-ho military adventurism in the Middle East.
Trump won all by himself eh? I thought that (respectively) the Iraqi army; the Kurds; the Syrian government forces; the Russians and the Turks did all of the fighting there.
You are exaggerating the difficulties in Afghanistan and Iraq. It is not so bad. As for who should get the credit, I agree other parties should also get some of the credit. But so does Trump. Don't forget, the Iraqi army, the Kurds, Syrians etc were there in the last 8 years when oBUMa were arround. And they failed to destroy ISIS. But one year of Trump in the WH is all it tood to destroy ISIS. All Trump did was to sic the "Mad Dog" Mattis on them.
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:44 am
oBUMa's "steadier hand" drew red lines he had no courage to enforce.
And of course the lack of support Obama got from Congress (Republican controlled and out to scalp him) and elsewhere had nothing to do with it, I suppose?
The Republicans were the ones who took him to task for not enforcing his red line. The blame must lie with his Democrats who applauded his "steady hands".

I still felt a lot safer with Obama in charge than I do with this clown making waves.
Because you are a leftist and so must support oBUMa.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: What is going on in Iran - A new uprising?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:24 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:35 pm

Obviously, the Europeans don't agree with you. As a result of Trump's threat not to protect Europe from Russia, they have agreed to increase defense spending instead of freeloading on the American taxpayer to protect them from the Russians. Careful, you are starting to sound like Sertorio. [ :lol: :lol: :lol: ] Every American President had asked the Europeans to increase defense spending, but only Trump succeeded thanks to his unconventional method.
Military spending by all European countries was, in total, greater than Russia's or China's spending. But because it was not centrally managed the results were very poor. We are now trying to correct that which, in my view, is a lot more important than any marginal increase in military spending by the individual countries. But if we are trying to have a more efficient military it isn't because Trump imposed it on us, but because we no longer trust the US to help defending Europe against real threats - not the bogus Russian threat. So, yes, we must thank Trump for having awakened us to the need of being independent and self-sufficient on what concerns defense.

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 1272
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: What is going on in Iran - A new uprising?

Post by cassowary » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:35 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:24 am
So, yes, we must thank Trump for having awakened us to the need of being independent and self-sufficient on what concerns defense.
So that means his method was effective. Cartoonish maybe, but effective.

User avatar
SteveFoerster
Posts: 945
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, USA and Dominica, West Indies
Contact:

Re: What is going on in Iran - A new uprising?

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:14 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:44 am
His buffoonish behavior persuaded NATO allies to increase their defense spending.
Yes, because for the first time since the 1940's they see the U.S. as unreliable. That's not an achievement.
He succeeded in destroying ISIS while oBUMa's premature withdrawal resulted in ISIS conquering a swath of Iraq and Syria. oBUMa's "steadier hand" drew red lines he had no courage to enforce.
While I've long criticised Obama's war presidency, to give credit to the functional end of ISIS to Donald Trump is even more absurd as giving credit to Obama for capturing Osama bin Ladin. As I've had to tell you time and time again, not every world event is caused by the president of the United States of America!
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 1272
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: What is going on in Iran - A new uprising?

Post by cassowary » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:23 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:14 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:44 am
His buffoonish behavior persuaded NATO allies to increase their defense spending.
Yes, because for the first time since the 1940's they see the U.S. as unreliable. That's not an achievement.
He succeeded in destroying ISIS while oBUMa's premature withdrawal resulted in ISIS conquering a swath of Iraq and Syria. oBUMa's "steadier hand" drew red lines he had no courage to enforce.
While I've long criticised Obama's war presidency, to give credit to the functional end of ISIS to Donald Trump is even more absurd as giving credit to Obama for capturing Osama bin Ladin. As I've had to tell you time and time again, not every world event is caused by the president of the United States of America!
You are not giving Trump enough credit. He changed the rules of engagement so that war is fought by soldiers and not bureaucrats. Of course the Iraqis and the Kurds also should be given credit.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jim the Moron and 6 guests