Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

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neverfail
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Re: Tax bill hits big liberal cities

Post by neverfail » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:16 pm

Another clear American example of good government being sacrificed on the alter of partisan politics.

In this case spiteful, vindictive partisan politics.

Observed from afar in disgust!
Last edited by neverfail on Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

neverfail
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by neverfail » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:18 pm

Milo wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:36 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:05 pm
cassowary wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:20 pm


The most prudent way to do this correctly is to match tax cuts with spending cuts.
The magic solution for all problems again, I see! :roll:
Except when Singapore runs a deficit: then it's a prudent investment!
Ballooning national debt. The flip side of too many tax breaks.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:25 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:16 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:02 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:03 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:20 am

The amount of taxes to be paid have a direct effect on private sector spending.
Yes, us as the amount of public spending has a direct effect on economic growth, especially when private spending slacks off.

(like during an economic recession.)

Not to the degree that private sector spending has in equal amounts. Government spending is choosing winners and losers Private spending is letting the markets decide I would put my money of the markets 9 times out of 10 VS some government bureaucrats choosing where to spend the money.
The private sector doesn't choose winners and losers?
Yes, but in a free market it chooses those who best satisfy customer needs rather than those are merely closest to political power.

But it's such a common phrase that it's surprising you didn't know what it means.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

neverfail
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by neverfail » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:26 pm

cassowary wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:28 am


I see the trend having lived in a dictatorship and democracy. Dictatorship allows discipline. Democracy means more vote buying ie government spending. This leads to budget deficits.
No, sorry cassowary. You have had the experience of living in one particular, unusually well managed authoritarian state and then made the error of attempting to universalise this precept by way of projection. Asserting that all autocratically run states have this virtue.

Direct observation of what has happened and is happening around the world should open your eyes to the fact that this is a false analogy.

neverfail
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by neverfail » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:37 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:25 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:16 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:02 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:03 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:20 am

The amount of taxes to be paid have a direct effect on private sector spending.
Yes, us as the amount of public spending has a direct effect on economic growth, especially when private spending slacks off.

(like during an economic recession.)

Not to the degree that private sector spending has in equal amounts. Government spending is choosing winners and losers Private spending is letting the markets decide I would put my money of the markets 9 times out of 10 VS some government bureaucrats choosing where to spend the money.
The private sector doesn't choose winners and losers?
Yes, but in a free market it chooses those who best satisfy customer needs rather than those are merely closest to political power.

But it's such a common phrase that it's surprising you didn't know what it means.
On this topic, you American critics lend me the impression that you live in an order where government is very remote from the lives of those being government.

What is elected government other than market forces driven? The voter's choice is surely a "market forces" drive phenomenon. Far more so than the big, corporate, free enterprise manipulators of "the market" acting in theirm own (not always even their shareholder's ) best interests.

Ideally, government should be devoted to the wellbeing of the populace at large. As such very much sensative to 'market forces' demand instead of serving privileged interests.

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cassowary
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Re: Tax bill hits big liberal cities

Post by cassowary » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:47 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:16 pm
Another clear American example of good government being sacrificed on the alter of partisan politics.

In this case spiteful, vindictive partisan politics.

Observed from afar in disgust!
Why? Liberals are always asking for higher taxes. So they are given what they ask for.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:33 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:37 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:25 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:16 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:02 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:03 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:20 am

The amount of taxes to be paid have a direct effect on private sector spending.
Yes, us as the amount of public spending has a direct effect on economic growth, especially when private spending slacks off.

(like during an economic recession.)

Not to the degree that private sector spending has in equal amounts. Government spending is choosing winners and losers Private spending is letting the markets decide I would put my money of the markets 9 times out of 10 VS some government bureaucrats choosing where to spend the money.
The private sector doesn't choose winners and losers?
Yes, but in a free market it chooses those who best satisfy customer needs rather than those are merely closest to political power.

But it's such a common phrase that it's surprising you didn't know what it means.
On this topic, you American critics lend me the impression that you live in an order where government is very remote from the lives of those being government.

What is elected government other than market forces driven? The voter's choice is surely a "market forces" drive phenomenon. Far more so than the big, corporate, free enterprise manipulators of "the market" acting in theirm own (not always even their shareholder's ) best interests.

Ideally, government should be devoted to the wellbeing of the populace at large. As such very much sensative to 'market forces' demand instead of serving privileged interests.
To be honest, I'm not sure how to respond to that, because terms like "market forces" and "free enterprise" are not simply rhetorical flourishes to be redefined for one's convenience, they actually denote specific things that are understood by anyone with a basic familiarity with economics, no matter where they may be on the ideological map.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Doc
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by Doc » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:42 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:16 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:02 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:03 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:20 am

The amount of taxes to be paid have a direct effect on private sector spending.
Yes, us as the amount of public spending has a direct effect on economic growth, especially when private spending slacks off.

(like during an economic recession.)

Not to the degree that private sector spending has in equal amounts. Government spending is choosing winners and losers Private spending is letting the markets decide I would put my money of the markets 9 times out of 10 VS some government bureaucrats choosing where to spend the money.
The private sector doesn't choose winners and losers?
They mostly do it with their own money. Not someone else's money. If it is someone else's money and they choose too many losers they don't get anymore money.
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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Milo
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by Milo » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:03 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:42 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:16 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:02 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:03 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:20 am

The amount of taxes to be paid have a direct effect on private sector spending.
Yes, us as the amount of public spending has a direct effect on economic growth, especially when private spending slacks off.

(like during an economic recession.)

Not to the degree that private sector spending has in equal amounts. Government spending is choosing winners and losers Private spending is letting the markets decide I would put my money of the markets 9 times out of 10 VS some government bureaucrats choosing where to spend the money.
The private sector doesn't choose winners and losers?
They mostly do it with their own money. Not someone else's money. If it is someone else's money and they choose too many losers they don't get anymore money.
Modern history is replete with CEOs who were richly rewarded for tanking companies. Then there's those who rake in investment and get rich from money losing and even fraudulent ventures. There's lots of companies who do a terrible job for customers but earn lots of money because they are monopolies. And there's the super rich, who often derive enormous income from investments that only they have access to.

I believe in a free market but I find your analysis tainted by naivety.

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cassowary
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by cassowary » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:09 am

Milo wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:03 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:42 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:16 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:02 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:03 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:20 am

The amount of taxes to be paid have a direct effect on private sector spending.
Yes, us as the amount of public spending has a direct effect on economic growth, especially when private spending slacks off.

(like during an economic recession.)

Not to the degree that private sector spending has in equal amounts. Government spending is choosing winners and losers Private spending is letting the markets decide I would put my money of the markets 9 times out of 10 VS some government bureaucrats choosing where to spend the money.
The private sector doesn't choose winners and losers?
They mostly do it with their own money. Not someone else's money. If it is someone else's money and they choose too many losers they don't get anymore money.
Modern history is replete with CEOs who were richly rewarded for tanking companies. Then there's those who rake in investment and get rich from money losing and even fraudulent ventures. There's lots of companies who do a terrible job for customers but earn lots of money because they are monopolies. And there's the super rich, who often derive enormous income from investments that only they have access to.

I believe in a free market but I find your analysis tainted by naivety.
Such cases are rare. Most of the time, companies make money by providing good products or service that customers want to buy. CEOs who don't do a good job are usually fired.

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