Who benefits most from the Zimbabwe coup?

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Milo
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: there is hope for Mugabe yet.

Post by Milo » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:51 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:43 pm
Folks:

I believe that you are a bit late in looking to the spread protestant work ethic to rescue a place like Zimbabwe.

Protestantism now seems to be in its death throes in the very lands of northern and central Europe where it originated from.

Various forms of disbelief, athiest, agnostic and apostate; now prevail. To practice the sort of iron discipline the Calvinists of yore needed to in order to comply with the moral obligations these strove to emulate is something that very few in our day would want to take on. Also, Calvinist societies were noted as suffocating communities to dwell in - with everyone fearful of stepping out of line with the rest lest he be thought of by others as unholy and ungodly: no longer of God's elect few, unlike themselves.

In other words; Calvinism has come to be regarded as an insufferable bore!

It. like protestantism itself, was a product of the times (the 15th century) in which it emerged. Might I remind my readers that the Reformation upheaval began as a protest movement against the excesses and abuses of a far too powerful and corrupt Catholic ecclesia (protestant = he who protests). I humbly suggest that spiritually, that is fundamentally what it has remained to this day.

The global trend today is one of ecumenical christianity - the removal of barriers between the various christian churches rather than the maintenance of old barriers and the erection of new ones.
.......................................................................................................................

Getting back to Zimbabwe (and to the point of this discussion) : Robert Mugabe, I have long known. received his school education at the hands of Catholic missionary monks and was, for all intents and purposes, brought up as a Catholic. Just last night I saw an interesting TV interview with a Zimbabwe Catholic bishop (a black one, of course) who years earlier had served as Mugabe's priest and confessor. This man revealed that while Robert Mugabe was waging insurgency war against the white minority regime headed by the politician Ian Smith "he (Mugabe) often carried his rosary beads into battle with him". :? :? :?

Umm, that would have been when Mugabe was a hard Marxist and therefore officially an atheist. :idea:

Easy enough for a Catholic to remove himself from the Church but a lot harder to entirely remove the Church from the lapsed Catholic.

Even when we Catholics lapse, for some reason we never seem to entirely lapse. With hindsight, Robert Mugabe seems to be yet another case in point.
Spengler once wrote that Pentecostalism is the fastest growing denomination.

Jim the Moron
Posts: 578
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:51 pm

Re: there is hope for Mugabe yet.

Post by Jim the Moron » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:26 am

Milo wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:51 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:43 pm
Folks:

I believe that you are a bit late in looking to the spread protestant work ethic to rescue a place like Zimbabwe.

Protestantism now seems to be in its death throes in the very lands of northern and central Europe where it originated from.

Various forms of disbelief, athiest, agnostic and apostate; now prevail. To practice the sort of iron discipline the Calvinists of yore needed to in order to comply with the moral obligations these strove to emulate is something that very few in our day would want to take on. Also, Calvinist societies were noted as suffocating communities to dwell in - with everyone fearful of stepping out of line with the rest lest he be thought of by others as unholy and ungodly: no longer of God's elect few, unlike themselves.

In other words; Calvinism has come to be regarded as an insufferable bore!

It. like protestantism itself, was a product of the times (the 15th century) in which it emerged. Might I remind my readers that the Reformation upheaval began as a protest movement against the excesses and abuses of a far too powerful and corrupt Catholic ecclesia (protestant = he who protests). I humbly suggest that spiritually, that is fundamentally what it has remained to this day.

The global trend today is one of ecumenical christianity - the removal of barriers between the various christian churches rather than the maintenance of old barriers and the erection of new ones.
.......................................................................................................................

Getting back to Zimbabwe (and to the point of this discussion) : Robert Mugabe, I have long known. received his school education at the hands of Catholic missionary monks and was, for all intents and purposes, brought up as a Catholic. Just last night I saw an interesting TV interview with a Zimbabwe Catholic bishop (a black one, of course) who years earlier had served as Mugabe's priest and confessor. This man revealed that while Robert Mugabe was waging insurgency war against the white minority regime headed by the politician Ian Smith "he (Mugabe) often carried his rosary beads into battle with him". :? :? :?

Umm, that would have been when Mugabe was a hard Marxist and therefore officially an atheist. :idea:

Easy enough for a Catholic to remove himself from the Church but a lot harder to entirely remove the Church from the lapsed Catholic.

Even when we Catholics lapse, for some reason we never seem to entirely lapse. With hindsight, Robert Mugabe seems to be yet another case in point.
Spengler once wrote that Pentecostalism is the fastest growing denomination.
Lacking as I do much understanding of religious matters, I googled this up:

"Facts & Trends"
https://factsandtrends.net/2015/03/11/7 ... istianity/

'Pentecostals will climb to more than i billion by 2050."

"Evangelicals are growing rapidly . . . That global growth rate ['2.13%] is better than Roman Catholics (1.13 percent) and Protestants as a whole (1.62 percent)."

neverfail
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: there is hope for Mugabe yet.

Post by neverfail » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:05 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:26 am


Lacking as I do much understanding of religious matters, I googled this up:

"Facts & Trends"
https://factsandtrends.net/2015/03/11/7 ... istianity/

'Pentecostals will climb to more than i billion by 2050."

"Evangelicals are growing rapidly . . . That global growth rate ['2.13%] is better than Roman Catholics (1.13 percent) and Protestants as a whole (1.62 percent)."
An interesting report Jim.

That's based upon a projection of current trends for several decades into the future. You cannot rely on that. History has been full of unexpected, often abrupt, changes in direction.

neverfail
Posts: 1262
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: religion subordinated to the interests of the state?

Post by neverfail » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:18 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:21 am
Thaks for the comment Lizzy girl. The parts of the world that has this corruption problem will always be hampered in economic development. But honesty that is not the only virtue that helps economic development. There is diligence and thrift too.

Dr Goh Keng Swee, one of the Founders of Singapore, was quoted as saying that the best way to facilitate development is to send in the missionaries from some strict Protestant sect.
"Recently, I had an interesting after dinner discussion with a widely traveled American banker. Over coffee, when peoples' moods becomes expansive, he asked if I had to recommend one single prescription to solve the economic problems of a poor country, what would it be. I said I would recommend that the population be converted to some demanding, narrow minded, intolerant form of Protestant religion, such as one of the Calvinist sects. This would bring about the end of easy-going thriftless habits among the populace and the beginning of scrupulous honesty in public administration. This combination must result in spectacular economic growth."
I almost overlooked this one for a response. Sorry about that!

Dr Goh Keng Swee, if he were not subtly joking with his American guests, was speaking from the one-dimensional perspective of a statesman. If he views Christianity (or any branch thereof) as merely an expedient method of facilitating economic growth then this man's god is not the god of the christians but the graven image of Mammon. The man must be a materialist!

He also (I get the impression) viewed religion as being subordinate to the needs of the nation. How very Chinese of him! That is the exact same view they take of the proper role of religion in the People's Republic of China.

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