Glory hallelujah!

Discussion of current events
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SteveFoerster
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Re: Glory hallelujah!

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:59 pm

Milo wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:28 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:56 am
Milo wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:17 pm
They both kill about the same number of people in the US each year.
Roughly, although one should be careful of drawing conclusions from that, since it ignores (1) that the vast majority of gun-related deaths are suicides, and (2) that by far the most common use of guns in an interpersonal situation is not to be fired, but simply through its presence to deter prospective assailants.

That's not to say that guns are as safe as lollipops, one of the reasons I don't own one is that I'm not trained in their safe keeping and use. But that doesn't mean one should exaggerate how they are dangerous and minimise how they are useful.
Yes, the suicide chestnut. I can't figure out what the point of that distinction is.
The point is that those figures shouldn't be included in how much of a threat private gun ownership poses, because someone who wants to commit suicide has his or her choice of a hundred different ways to do so, lack of a firearm won't stop them.
neverfail wrote:Could Steve be thinking about that mass suicide at Sutherland Springs, Texas, that was in the news a short time ago?
It's one thing to miss my point, but another to do so on purpose.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Milo
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Re: Glory hallelujah!

Post by Milo » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:13 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:59 pm
Milo wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:28 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:56 am
Milo wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:17 pm
They both kill about the same number of people in the US each year.
Roughly, although one should be careful of drawing conclusions from that, since it ignores (1) that the vast majority of gun-related deaths are suicides, and (2) that by far the most common use of guns in an interpersonal situation is not to be fired, but simply through its presence to deter prospective assailants.

That's not to say that guns are as safe as lollipops, one of the reasons I don't own one is that I'm not trained in their safe keeping and use. But that doesn't mean one should exaggerate how they are dangerous and minimise how they are useful.
Yes, the suicide chestnut. I can't figure out what the point of that distinction is.
The point is that those figures shouldn't be included in how much of a threat private gun ownership poses, because someone who wants to commit suicide has his or her choice of a hundred different ways to do so, lack of a firearm won't stop them.
Guns make it easier to kill, yourself more so than others!

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SteveFoerster
Posts: 1157
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Re: Glory hallelujah!

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:59 am

Milo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:13 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:59 pm
Milo wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:28 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:56 am
Milo wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:17 pm
They both kill about the same number of people in the US each year.
Roughly, although one should be careful of drawing conclusions from that, since it ignores (1) that the vast majority of gun-related deaths are suicides, and (2) that by far the most common use of guns in an interpersonal situation is not to be fired, but simply through its presence to deter prospective assailants.

That's not to say that guns are as safe as lollipops, one of the reasons I don't own one is that I'm not trained in their safe keeping and use. But that doesn't mean one should exaggerate how they are dangerous and minimise how they are useful.
Yes, the suicide chestnut. I can't figure out what the point of that distinction is.
The point is that those figures shouldn't be included in how much of a threat private gun ownership poses, because someone who wants to commit suicide has his or her choice of a hundred different ways to do so, lack of a firearm won't stop them.
Guns make it easier to kill, yourself more so than others!
If that were true then suicide rates by country would correlate with firearms availability.

But they don't.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Milo
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: Glory hallelujah!

Post by Milo » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:41 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:59 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:13 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:59 pm
Milo wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:28 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:56 am
Milo wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:17 pm
They both kill about the same number of people in the US each year.
Roughly, although one should be careful of drawing conclusions from that, since it ignores (1) that the vast majority of gun-related deaths are suicides, and (2) that by far the most common use of guns in an interpersonal situation is not to be fired, but simply through its presence to deter prospective assailants.

That's not to say that guns are as safe as lollipops, one of the reasons I don't own one is that I'm not trained in their safe keeping and use. But that doesn't mean one should exaggerate how they are dangerous and minimise how they are useful.
Yes, the suicide chestnut. I can't figure out what the point of that distinction is.
The point is that those figures shouldn't be included in how much of a threat private gun ownership poses, because someone who wants to commit suicide has his or her choice of a hundred different ways to do so, lack of a firearm won't stop them.
Guns make it easier to kill, yourself more so than others!
If that were true then suicide rates by country would correlate with firearms availability.

But they don't.
Well if it's not true we can have a duel, you can be unarmed and I will have a sawed off shotgun.

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SteveFoerster
Posts: 1157
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Re: Glory hallelujah!

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:15 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:41 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:59 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:13 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:59 pm
Milo wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:28 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:56 am

Roughly, although one should be careful of drawing conclusions from that, since it ignores (1) that the vast majority of gun-related deaths are suicides, and (2) that by far the most common use of guns in an interpersonal situation is not to be fired, but simply through its presence to deter prospective assailants.

That's not to say that guns are as safe as lollipops, one of the reasons I don't own one is that I'm not trained in their safe keeping and use. But that doesn't mean one should exaggerate how they are dangerous and minimise how they are useful.
Yes, the suicide chestnut. I can't figure out what the point of that distinction is.
The point is that those figures shouldn't be included in how much of a threat private gun ownership poses, because someone who wants to commit suicide has his or her choice of a hundred different ways to do so, lack of a firearm won't stop them.
Guns make it easier to kill, yourself more so than others!
If that were true then suicide rates by country would correlate with firearms availability.

But they don't.
Well if it's not true we can have a duel, you can be unarmed and I will have a sawed off shotgun.
Do you seriously need a refresher on the difference between suicide and homicide? Because at this point it seems more likely you're finding it preferable to miss my point on purpose than to acknowledge it.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Milo
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: Glory hallelujah!

Post by Milo » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:54 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:15 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:41 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:59 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:13 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:59 pm
Milo wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:28 pm


Yes, the suicide chestnut. I can't figure out what the point of that distinction is.
The point is that those figures shouldn't be included in how much of a threat private gun ownership poses, because someone who wants to commit suicide has his or her choice of a hundred different ways to do so, lack of a firearm won't stop them.
Guns make it easier to kill, yourself more so than others!
If that were true then suicide rates by country would correlate with firearms availability.

But they don't.
Well if it's not true we can have a duel, you can be unarmed and I will have a sawed off shotgun.
Do you seriously need a refresher on the difference between suicide and homicide? Because at this point it seems more likely you're finding it preferable to miss my point on purpose than to acknowledge it.
My bread and butter is crime and mental illness. Committing suicide without a gun is notably harder than with one.

The astroturf fuelled statistical obfuscation about rates of this and that aren't going to sway me.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Glory hallelujah!

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:04 am

Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:54 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:15 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:41 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:59 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:13 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:59 pm

The point is that those figures shouldn't be included in how much of a threat private gun ownership poses, because someone who wants to commit suicide has his or her choice of a hundred different ways to do so, lack of a firearm won't stop them.
Guns make it easier to kill, yourself more so than others!
If that were true then suicide rates by country would correlate with firearms availability.

But they don't.
Well if it's not true we can have a duel, you can be unarmed and I will have a sawed off shotgun.
Do you seriously need a refresher on the difference between suicide and homicide? Because at this point it seems more likely you're finding it preferable to miss my point on purpose than to acknowledge it.
My bread and butter is crime and mental illness. Committing suicide without a gun is notably harder than with one.

The astroturf fuelled statistical obfuscation about rates of this and that aren't going to sway me.
In other words, you have no interest in pesky data when it doesn't support your preferred conclusion.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: Glory hallelujah!

Post by Milo » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:55 pm

Husband and wife accidentally shot during church gun safety talk

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42032637

Writes itself!

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