Catalonian Independence?!

Discussion of current events
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Sertorio
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Re: Catalonian Independence?!

Post by Sertorio » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:04 am

dagbay wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:29 pm
It is time to call out the Spanish oppression of Catalonia. Spain has milked the industrious Catalans and repressed their legitimate rights. It is time for a two states solution in Spain or is it 3 stars as the Basques would likely want their sovereignty as well.

Who will fund the NGO'S that would be set up in Spain to undermine the government and report all the atrocities that it dose. Maybe the Clintons want to pitch in? Or the liberals of Scandinavia? Maybe Merkel wants to stir that pot too?
:D

You forgot Soros...

Alexis
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Hard for secessionists, good for all of Spain

Post by Alexis » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:56 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:57 pm
Oh boy! This is going to be fun! If the Catalan people who favour independence do as they are asked, those banks which ran away from Barcelona are going to have a very nasty surprise!...
Catalan independentists have three problems.

Since their attempt at a referendum:
- They failed to obtain any international support, including crucially from other EU members who all said they supported Spain defending her Constitution
- They triggered a real stampede not only of banks but of hundreds of companies relocating their head outside of Catalonia to somewhere else in Spain, fearful of losing access to Spanish and EU market
- They triggered a massive pro-Spain demonstration in Barcelona, as large if not larger than any pro-independence demonstration they had ever organized

Here is the deal: they are isolated internationally, isolated in Catalonia with at least half of the population strongly against them, and prospective economic hardship certain to convince part of even their supporters to calm down and think anew

On the other side, the Spanish government is surfing on a tide of renewed national pride, including - this is crucial - in Catalonia, it is supported by every European government and their cousin, and all it has to do to win is to apply the law quietly, since time is on their side anyway as economic problems begin to rain down on Catalonia as a result of independentist behavior.

Independentists will be crushed, as the first step

If the Spanish government has enough sense, they will later negotiate a larger autonomy for Catalonia inside Spain, however not with independentists but with pro-Spain Catalans. That will crush independentists further, as a second and hopefully final step.

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Sertorio
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Re: Hard for secessionists, good for all of Spain

Post by Sertorio » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:55 am

Alexis wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:56 am

- They triggered a massive pro-Spain demonstration in Barcelona, as large if not larger than any pro-independence demonstration they had ever organized
Not at all. While organizers claimed a 950,000 attendance, the police mentioned 350,000. Let's call it a half a million. And a substantial number came from outside Catalonia. Independence demonstrations gathered close to 1 million people. Also, on the Spanish national day (october 12) no more than 75,000 people demonstrated in Barcelona while 200,000 people protested against the detention in Madrid of two prominent independentist leaders. In my mind there is absolutely no doubt that pro-independence people in Catalonia far exceed the number of unionists. But we will soon know. If Rajoy imposes new elections in Catalonia the chances are that all pro-inpendence parties will present a common list of candidates, and then we will have the referendum Madrid tried to prevent. If such a list gets more than 50% of the vote - and the chances are that they would - what will be the argument against the independence of Catalonia?...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Catalonian Independence?!

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:55 am

dagbay wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:29 pm
It is time to call out the Spanish oppression of Catalonia. Spain has milked the industrious Catalans and repressed their legitimate rights. It is time for a two states solution in Spain or is it 3 stars as the Basques would likely want their sovereignty as well.

Who will fund the NGO'S that would be set up in Spain to undermine the government and report all the atrocities that it dose. Maybe the Clintons want to pitch in? Or the liberals of Scandinavia? Maybe Merkel wants to stir that pot too?
Putin might. I could see him promoting separatism within Europe in an attempt to weaken the EU and its member states.

(Of course, the weaker states are, the stronger individuals become, but it's the former that he sees as rivals.)
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Doc
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Re: Catalonian Independence?!

Post by Doc » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:47 am

The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

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