Kurdistan!?

Discussion of current events
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dagbay
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Re: Kurdistan!?

Post by dagbay » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:16 pm

armchair_pundit wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:10 pm
dagbay wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:52 pm
The Kurds seem splintered and are losing ground. Untrue to their fierce image the have lost major town to the advancing Shia Iraqi militias without a fight. What happened to the pashmerga?
If I were to guess, the Kurds won't be reacting, but picking the time and place of their choosing to essentially "formally" open their war for independence, if it comes to that. The Kurds may be trying to win without fighting, but realize at some point they either will have to risk it all, or settle for somewhat autonomous regions. Many players in that game and the Kurds are too smart to be the sacrificial lamb for them, lets hope...
Hope we will but the fierce Pashmerga letting the Iraqi Shia militias waltz into the oil center of Kirkuc without a challenge is disheartening to watch.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Kurdistan!?

Post by Jim the Moron » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:26 pm

Perhaps the Pashmerga are playing the long game?

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Sertorio
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Re: Kurdistan!?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:08 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:26 pm
Perhaps the Pashmerga are playing the long game?
Iraqi Kurdistan has no outlet for its oil besides Turkey or Iraq. Kurds must have realized that independence under such conditions was a deadly trap. I cannot see how Kurds can ever solve the problems of geography...

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cassowary
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Re: Kurdistan!?

Post by cassowary » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:50 am

That makes sense Sertorio. The Kurds need friendly neighbors to survive.

neverfail
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Re: a simple tactical reason why the Kurds did not fight for Kirkuk.

Post by neverfail » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:06 am

dagbay wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:52 pm
The Kurds seem splintered and are losing ground. Untrue to their fierce image the have lost major town to the advancing Shia Iraqi militias without a fight. What happened to the pashmerga?
Ignoring political division among the Kurds leading to uncertainty among the Peshmerga: I get the impression that Kirkuk was/is virtually indefensible to the Kurds. The Kurdish homeland within Iraq comprises the rugged highland region in the north of the country; itself part of the southern edge of an extensive plateau that covers Anatolia (Asiatic Turkey) then extends southeast to become the Iran plateau. The Arabic part is the alluvial plain that covers the rest of Iraq.

In that regard Iraq is like a microcosm of the entire middle East. As a rule the Arabs occupy the plains country to the south whilst Aryan peoples, Kurds, Turks and Persians, occupy the belt of high country to the north.

Anyone with the slightest nous in military tactics would be aware that whereas mountain country is eminently defendable whilst flat, open country is grist for highly mobile invaders. Kirkuk is located on flat ground approximately at the northern extremity of the Tigris-Euphrates alluvial basin.

The likely (bottom line) reason why the Peshmerga chose not to make a stand and defend Kirkuk is that they lacked the armour to do it.

Fierce warriors without tanks are much more effective waging guerilla warfare in rugged terrain.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Kurdistan!?

Post by Jim the Moron » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:01 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:08 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:26 pm
Perhaps the Pashmerga are playing the long game?
Iraqi Kurdistan has no outlet for its oil besides Turkey or Iraq. Kurds must have realized that independence under such conditions was a deadly trap. I cannot see how Kurds can ever solve the problems of geography...
Quite correct. Independence is not a matter of having agreeable neighbors.

"The Kurds need friendly neighbors to survive" (cassowary) Kurds have survived in spite of barbaric Islamic efforts to eliminate them.

"I cannot see how Kurds can ever solve the problems of geography" (Sertorio) -- Hope springs eternal . . .

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Kurdistan!?

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:49 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:08 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:26 pm
Perhaps the Pashmerga are playing the long game?
Iraqi Kurdistan has no outlet for its oil besides Turkey or Iraq. Kurds must have realized that independence under such conditions was a deadly trap. I cannot see how Kurds can ever solve the problems of geography...
If ISIS can sell oil, surely Kurdistan can figure something out.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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dagbay
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Re: Kurdistan!?

Post by dagbay » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:55 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:49 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:08 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:26 pm
Perhaps the Pashmerga are playing the long game?
Iraqi Kurdistan has no outlet for its oil besides Turkey or Iraq. Kurds must have realized that independence under such conditions was a deadly trap. I cannot see how Kurds can ever solve the problems of geography...
If ISIS can sell oil, surely Kurdistan can figure something out.
All they need to do is unite with their buddies in Turkey and they would be able to get right to the Mediterranean Sea.
True far fetched now but in the future? After all the Sultan of turkey is ruling over the kurdish Turks with an iron fist.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

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Sertorio
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Re: Kurdistan!?

Post by Sertorio » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:41 am

dagbay wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:55 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:49 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:08 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:26 pm
Perhaps the Pashmerga are playing the long game?
Iraqi Kurdistan has no outlet for its oil besides Turkey or Iraq. Kurds must have realized that independence under such conditions was a deadly trap. I cannot see how Kurds can ever solve the problems of geography...
If ISIS can sell oil, surely Kurdistan can figure something out.
All they need to do is unite with their buddies in Turkey and they would be able to get right to the Mediterranean Sea.
True far fetched now but in the future? After all the Sultan of turkey is ruling over the kurdish Turks with an iron fist.
They would more easily get to the Black Sea through Armenia and Georgia... But to defeat Turkey is beyond the grasp of the Kurds... Every country which could help Kurdistan get its oil out has a Kurdish minority, and so I don't see how the Kurds will ever be free...

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cassowary
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Bitth rate = destiny

Post by cassowary » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:20 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:41 am
dagbay wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:55 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:49 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:08 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:26 pm
Perhaps the Pashmerga are playing the long game?
Iraqi Kurdistan has no outlet for its oil besides Turkey or Iraq. Kurds must have realized that independence under such conditions was a deadly trap. I cannot see how Kurds can ever solve the problems of geography...
If ISIS can sell oil, surely Kurdistan can figure something out.
All they need to do is unite with their buddies in Turkey and they would be able to get right to the Mediterranean Sea.
True far fetched now but in the future? After all the Sultan of turkey is ruling over the kurdish Turks with an iron fist.
They would more easily get to the Black Sea through Armenia and Georgia... But to defeat Turkey is beyond the grasp of the Kurds... Every country which could help Kurdistan get its oil out has a Kurdish minority, and so I don't see how the Kurds will ever be free...
I recall reading in one of Spengler 's essays that Turkish Kurds have a far higher birth rate than Turks. So they will eventually break free of Ankara. Then Iraqi Kurds will be free. It will take time though.

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