Can we stop the collapse of democracy?

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neverfail
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Re: the inter-denominal politics of Christian churches in Oz.

Post by neverfail » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:54 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:58 pm


What a pity. The spread of the Methodist church's teachings about alcohol (total abstinence) will go a long way to help Australians, especially the Aborigines who suffer from a high degree of alcoholism. It is a cause of their poverty. It ruins marriages and also makes it hard to keep your job. Drinking too much is also bad for your health, which may partly account for their relatively shorter lives.

That is not the only social benefit of Christian ethics. But this example shows how behavior induced by religious beliefs can have an economic and social impact. I think that Jonathan Gruber was on to something, when his research showed that adherence to the Christian faith raises income levels - on the average of course.

But that is nothing new. Max Weber said something similar.
Cass, neither the Catholic Church nor the Anglican Church endorses alcohol (or any other addictive substance) abuse as godly. Of course it is sinful - all Christian Churches seem to be of one mind on that issue. However, I would contend that sin lies in the abuse and the addiction; not in the moderate partaking of.

I see nothing wrong with total abstinence from alcoholic drink - as a drastic remedy for the addicted. If John Wesley was an advocate of total abstinence from alcohol I can think of two plausible explanations as to why:

1. Wesley, I believe, was well known for his austerities in private devotion. For him abstinence might have been a permanent form of penance for the sins of the world.

2. his ministry was among the working class poor of England and Wales where alcoholism was a widespread, and rising social evil - along with associated sins such as spouse bashing and neglect of the needs of the children.

Yet the expedient "cold turkey" remedy of curing the addicted with self help disciplinary remedies should be seen for what it is: an expedient escape for the otherwise hopeless. As for others who are already lifelong disciplined, moderate drinkers, total abstinence is a redundant non-remedy.

During my lifetime Australian mores have changed so much I sometimes wonder whether I am living in the same country I was born in. Perhaps this helps explain why Methodist Christianity went to the wall in this country. We had outgrown our working class British roots and become predominantly a nation of middle class, moderate drinkers.

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cassowary
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Re: the inter-denominal politics of Christian churches in Oz.

Post by cassowary » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:37 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:54 am


2. his ministry was among the working class poor of England and Wales where alcoholism was a widespread, and rising social evil - along with associated sins such as spouse bashing and neglect of the needs of the children.
That sounds like how your present-day Aborigines behave. Wesley's ministry built what I call "cultural capital" that paid dividends in the future. Cultural capital is people's attitudes, beliefs and behavior that brings peace and prosperity. Australia needs a modern-day John Wesley to do the same for the Aborigines. Instead, the left makes their poverty as a means to bash Australians and its history. It won't help the aborigines and might makes things worse.

The Left is making them feel they are entitled to compensation instead of self-improvement, the kinds that Wesley brought to the British working class. But that is all the left understands. They see everything as a struggle between oppressor and oppressed to justify wealth transfer, in this case, from white Australians to black Australians.

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Doc
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Re: Can we stop the collapse of democracy?

Post by Doc » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:10 pm

Clear examples of what is wrong with our democracy that needs fixing:

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

neverfail
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Re: the inter-denominal politics of Christian churches in Oz.

Post by neverfail » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:08 pm

cassowary wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:37 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:54 am


2. his ministry was among the working class poor of England and Wales where alcoholism was a widespread, and rising social evil - along with associated sins such as spouse bashing and neglect of the needs of the children.
That sounds like how your present-day Aborigines behave. Wesley's ministry built what I call "cultural capital" that paid dividends in the future. Cultural capital is people's attitudes, beliefs and behavior that brings peace and prosperity. Australia needs a modern-day John Wesley to do the same for the Aborigines. ........
Like to volunteer, cass? :D

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