North Korea

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Sertorio
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North Korea

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:16 am

North Korea economy grows at fastest pace in 17 years
By CHRISTINE KIM JULY 21, 2017

North Korea’s economy grew at its fastest pace in 17 years in 2016, South Korea’s central bank said on Friday, despite the isolated country facing international sanctions aimed at curbing its pursuit of nuclear weapons.

Gross domestic product (GDP) in North Korea last year rose 3.9% from the previous year when the economy contracted due to a drought and low commodity prices, the Bank of Korea said.

The expansion, driven by mining and energy, marked the biggest rise since a 6.1 percent gain in 1999.

North Korea, which counts China as its biggest trading partner, also boosted exports by 4.6%, the most since an 11.8% jump in 2013.

Still, the isolated state’s per capita gross national income in 2016 was just 1.5 million won ($1,136), less than 5% of the comparable number in South Korea.

North Korea does not publish economic data. The Bank of Korea has released GDP data on North Korea every year since 1991 based on information from government agencies including South Korea’s Ministry of Unification and the National Intelligence Service. The estimate is widely used by international organizations and researchers.

North Korea has been under U.N. sanctions since 2006 over its ballistic missile and nuclear programs and the Security Council has ratcheted up the measures in response to five nuclear tests and two long-range missile launches.

(...)

http://www.atimes.com/article/sanctions ... -17-years/

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SteveFoerster
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Re: North Korea

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:35 am

Of course, the only lesson here is the importance of the distinction between absolute and relative terms.
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Sertorio
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Re: North Korea

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:48 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:35 am
Of course, the only lesson here is the importance of the distinction between absolute and relative terms.
Also the distinction between growing and not growing... Besides the fact that in a planified socialist economy prices/value of things produced are set administratively...

neverfail
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Re: North Korea and other command economies.

Post by neverfail » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:23 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:48 am

Also the distinction between growing and not growing... Besides the fact that in a planified socialist economy prices/value of things produced are set administratively...
You are right there Sertorio. The trouble is that the prices set rarely reflect their real value.
..................................................................................................................

A few years after the fall of Soviet Communism I was talking with a couple of Polish immigrants. I knew that from soon after the Soviet conquest of Poland from Nazi German occupation (it could hardly have been called a liberation) until 1956 (after the demise of Stalin) Poland's farm sector was organised into collectives just like in the USSR. Under pressure from public opinion the Communist government of Poland then gave most of the land back to their former peasant owners. That did not mean the end of their war on private ownership. My Polish informants described how their government would then routinely buy up most of the food produced by these small-time farmers and sell it to consumers in the towns and cities at prices up to as little as half of their purchase price.

I then remarked "I could not think of a more effective way for a country to send itself bankrupt". The Poles said "they did that so that when the farmers brought the rest of the produce into town to sell they would not be able to do so except at prices significantly higher than in the state stores. They wanted to send the independent farmers bankrupt so that they would plead to have their land re-incorporated into collectives again."
........................................................................................................................

In the late 1970's a Polish-Australian acquaintance of mine visited Poland in order to look up relatives of his still marooned behind the iron curtain. One day the local bus he was travelling on between cities broke down en route. The driver opened the door and said "everyone out! There will be no more bus service today". The Polish-Australian visitor remarked to us (later, back in Australia) 'in a free enterprise (or capitalist) economy whatever is produced is normally in response to public demand. Private enterprise producers are motivated by the need to make a profit to be sensitive to market signals and produce accordingly. But in a command economy like that it is a case of "this is what we produce: you can take it or go without!"

Producers in Communist command economies are/were only obliged to meet quota targets: not to provide customer satisfaction.

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Doc
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Re: North Korea and other command economies.

Post by Doc » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:57 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:23 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:48 am

Also the distinction between growing and not growing... Besides the fact that in a planified socialist economy prices/value of things produced are set administratively...
You are right there Sertorio. The trouble is that the prices set rarely reflect their real value.
..................................................................................................................

A few years after the fall of Soviet Communism I was talking with a couple of Polish immigrants. I knew that from soon after the Soviet conquest of Poland from Nazi German occupation (it could hardly have been called a liberation) until 1956 (after the demise of Stalin) Poland's farm sector was organised into collectives just like in the USSR. Under pressure from public opinion the Communist government of Poland then gave most of the land back to their former peasant owners. That did not mean the end of their war on private ownership. My Polish informants described how their government would then routinely buy up most of the food produced by these small-time farmers and sell it to consumers in the towns and cities at prices up to as little as half of their purchase price.

I then remarked "I could not think of a more effective way for a country to send itself bankrupt". The Poles said "they did that so that when the farmers brought the rest of the produce into town to sell they would not be able to do so except at prices significantly higher than in the state stores. They wanted to send the independent farmers bankrupt so that they would plead to have their land re-incorporated into collectives again."
........................................................................................................................

In the late 1970's a Polish-Australian acquaintance of mine visited Poland in order to look up relatives of his still marooned behind the iron curtain. One day the local bus he was travelling on between cities broke down en route. The driver opened the door and said "everyone out! There will be no more bus service today". The Polish-Australian visitor remarked to us (later, back in Australia) 'in a free enterprise (or capitalist) economy whatever is produced is normally in response to public demand. Private enterprise producers are motivated by the need to make a profit to be sensitive to market signals and produce accordingly. But in a command economy like that it is a case of "this is what we produce: you can take it or go without!"

Producers in Communist command economies are/were only obliged to meet quota targets: not to provide customer satisfaction.

Isn't that called "Crowd-sourcing" :D
The classes and the races to weak to master the new conditions of life must give way {..} They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust --Karl Marx

Jim the Moron
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Re: North Korea

Post by Jim the Moron » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:28 pm

An anecdote - a few hours ago I saw mention on an internet news outlet of major developments re NK nuclear capabilities. Checked out Fox on TV and appreciated their good commentary on the topic. Then I flipped to CNN, where they were "analysing" the low approval ratings for POTUS in recent polls. Back to Fox for awhile - more worthwhile commentary on NK. Then, another check of CNN - they were discussing the costs of Trump's frequent golfing jaunts.

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Milo
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Re: North Korea

Post by Milo » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:31 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:28 pm
An anecdote - a few hours ago I saw mention on an internet news outlet of major developments re NK nuclear capabilities. Checked out Fox on TV and appreciated their good commentary on the topic. Then I flipped to CNN, where they were "analysing" the low approval ratings for POTUS in recent polls. Back to Fox for awhile - more worthwhile commentary on NK. Then, another check of CNN - they were discussing the costs of Trump's frequent golfing jaunts.
What's your point?

Jim the Moron
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Re: North Korea

Post by Jim the Moron » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:39 pm

My point is - CNN, once a useful source of international news, now isn't worth a pile of warm spraint.

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Milo
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Re: North Korea

Post by Milo » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:40 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:39 pm
My point is - CNN, once a useful source of international news, now isn't worth a pile of warm spraint.
Why?

Jim the Moron
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Re: North Korea

Post by Jim the Moron » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm

Why? Who knows. For some reason CNN has decided to become a trashy, unreliable purveyor of unimportant news.

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