'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

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Sertorio
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Re: 'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

Post by Sertorio » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:55 am

I was under the impression that slavery was adopted by the US following a Russian propaganda campaign in favour of serfdom. But Americans felt that serfdom, being a Russian thing, was far too harsh and undemocratic and so opted for slavery instead... :D

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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: 'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:54 am

There is a civil war and it's sorta ongoing:
Elon Musk observed that "brand is just a perception, and perception will match reality over time. Sometimes it will be ahead, other times it will be behind. But brand is simply a collective impression some have about a product." When Time Magazine reported the Davos elite had decided that America No Longer Matters, it is proper to ask 'what no longer mattered? The perception of America or the reality'? "A year after Trump’s election raised the prospect of revolution, the elites have regained their confidence. The revolt had been put down, stock markets are up, and globalism is making a comeback."
https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/th ... ure-thing/
I have a certain notoriety among the lesser gods........

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Doc
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Re: 'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

Post by Doc » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:37 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:55 am
I was under the impression that slavery was adopted by the US following a Russian propaganda campaign in favour of serfdom. But Americans felt that serfdom, being a Russian thing, was far too harsh and undemocratic and so opted for slavery instead... :D
Every year Americans are forced in to slavery for the state. Not only are they required to spend half the year just to work to pay the government to add insult to injury they are forced to fill out forms to tell the government how much they made and instead of getting compensation for their time filling out those forms they are forced to pay.
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Doc
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Re: 'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

Post by Doc » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:40 pm

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:54 am
There is a civil war and it's sorta ongoing:
Elon Musk observed that "brand is just a perception, and perception will match reality over time. Sometimes it will be ahead, other times it will be behind. But brand is simply a collective impression some have about a product." When Time Magazine reported the Davos elite had decided that America No Longer Matters, it is proper to ask 'what no longer mattered? The perception of America or the reality'? "A year after Trump’s election raised the prospect of revolution, the elites have regained their confidence. The revolt had been put down, stock markets are up, and globalism is making a comeback."
https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/th ... ure-thing/

My guess is Davosman is not going to look kindly on Obama once again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/13/comey ... t-meeting/

Comey Held Secret Obama White House Meeting Before The Inauguration
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

neverfail
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Re: 'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

Post by neverfail » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:12 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:55 am
I was under the impression that slavery was adopted by the US following a Russian propaganda campaign in favour of serfdom. But Americans felt that serfdom, being a Russian thing, was far too harsh and undemocratic and so opted for slavery instead... :D
:? :idea: Well, bear in mind that back in Africa a lot of them had been used to slavery at the hands of their own anyhow. So continuing something in the Americas a lot of them were already accustomed to would probably have been no big deal . :lol:

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cassowary
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Re: 'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

Post by cassowary » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:03 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:12 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:55 am
I was under the impression that slavery was adopted by the US following a Russian propaganda campaign in favour of serfdom. But Americans felt that serfdom, being a Russian thing, was far too harsh and undemocratic and so opted for slavery instead... :D
:? :idea: Well, bear in mind that back in Africa a lot of them had been used to slavery at the hands of their own anyhow. So continuing something in the Americas a lot of them were already accustomed to would probably have been no big deal . :lol:





Indeed. Unlike Muslims, the Europeans went to Africa to buy people already enslaved and not capture them. Even today slavery still exists in parts of Africa.


It should also not be forgotten that the British in later centauries sent shipsa to fight these slavers and freed the slaves.

Lastly, Portuguese Brazil was the last to end slavery.

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Sertorio
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Re: 'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

Post by Sertorio » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:49 am

cassowary wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:03 pm

Lastly, Portuguese Brazil was the last to end slavery.
Brazil is independent since 1822, so the issue of slavery in Brazil was an internal matter, Portugal had no saying in the matter. While slavery was preserved in Portugal's overseas possessions, it was made illegal in the realm in 1761, one century before it was abolished in the US...

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Sertorio
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Re: 'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

Post by Sertorio » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:58 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:12 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:55 am
I was under the impression that slavery was adopted by the US following a Russian propaganda campaign in favour of serfdom. But Americans felt that serfdom, being a Russian thing, was far too harsh and undemocratic and so opted for slavery instead... :D
:? :idea: Well, bear in mind that back in Africa a lot of them had been used to slavery at the hands of their own anyhow. So continuing something in the Americas a lot of them were already accustomed to would probably have been no big deal . :lol:
I hope you are being facetious...While slaves were known in Black Africa it was a minor situation until "civilized" Europeans made their presence felt... Traditionally, in Europe, slaves resulted from war. Enemy fighters were reduced to slavery, the alternative being putting them to death. Reason why the Church was for long tolerant of slavery (of non-Christian peoples), although insisting on slaves keeping some rights. Slavery only became the horror we know when slaves became a commodity, something which is very "capitalist"...

neverfail
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Re: 'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

Post by neverfail » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:40 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:58 am

I hope you are being facetious...
Only Half!
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:58 am
While slaves were known in Black Africa it was a minor situation until "civilized" Europeans made their presence felt...
Whoever said the bunch of Europeans who conducted the slave trade were notably "civilised"?

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:58 am
Traditionally, in Europe, slaves resulted from war. Enemy fighters were reduced to slavery, the alternative being putting them to death.
I believe that it was the same in Africa. Captured enemy warriors were normally killed. The arrival of seaborne slavers from Europe with valuable trade goods must have initially given Africans at war an incentive to keep their prisoners alive for trading purposes. Regrettably, as the trade increased motumum it also gave the more powerful tribes a big incentive to go to war against the weaker in order to capture more marketable slaves.

neverfail
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Re: 'Why was there a civil war?' - more of Trump's wisdom.

Post by neverfail » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:03 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:58 am
Slavery only became the horror we know when slaves became a commodity, something which is very "capitalist"...
Yes, I know that this seaborne slave running was carried out on an industrial scale. reading your post helped me to realise why.

Before Europeans reached the coast of west Africa and got into the game, Muslim (Arab, Berber and Tuareg) traders had been marching strings of black slaves across the Sahara sands to slave markets in the Middle East for centuries. The difference was that the need to feed and water the slaves as they spent weeks crossing the desert must have severely limited the number that could be taken from west Africa by this method. The number would have depended on the amount of provisions the camels that accompanied the march could have carried. But ships were more efficient in moving large numbers of people long distances.

The trade could be carried on in such a massive scale because ships were involved. That made the difference.
.......................................................................................................................

By the way (historical note) Portugal's celebrated ship designer Prince Henry the navigator was moved to the ambition to design and build better ships by the contents of Arabic accounts ledgers captured after the seaborne army he led stormed Ceuta. This north African port had been a hub of the trans-Sahara salt trade. The ledgers opened up his eyes to the potential wealth of gold, ivory and slaves that could be gained from that region. Europeans had until then taken no interest in sub-Sahara Africa simply because it had been unreachable to them. Whilst Prince Henry's work eventually allowed Portuguese vessels to reach the fabled east Indies, initially Portuguese ambitions were apparently focused on west Africa.

That explains why it took so bloody long for them to finally round the southern tip of Africa into the Indian Ocean. Diverted by the more immediate profits that west Africa could yield the bold and the brave?

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