US Foreign Policy

Discussion of current events
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cassowary
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by cassowary » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:24 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:02 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:50 am

You are right. The instincts of the human species is basically selfish. ...
... and the challenge to all men and women is to rise above that self-centered approach to life and replace this survivalist urge ro place oneself first with a loving heart.

Parents do this every time they place the wellbeing of their offsprings ahead of their own comfort and convenience (in case you have never heard of maternal -and paternal - love).

What do you think that Jesus Christ was banging on about? Why did he prematurely die the way he did?

You cannot institutionalise this grace. The trouble with those like you and those like sertorio you relate to as critics is that all of you seem to be able to think only in the dimension of political power structures.
You have a kind soul, Neverfail. The example of Christ is one of selfless love for others. But these cannot be forced at the point of a gun but must be freely given as rain falls from heaven. Socialism insists that charity for others must be at the point of a gun.

If 60 citizens in a small town force the remaining 40 wealthier citizens to surrender their goods at the point of a gun, then it is robbery. But if the 60 elect a Socialist mayor who promises to tax the 40 to benefit the 60, it is still robbery. If you don't pay your taxes, the police who have guns will arrest you.

Such a system will eventually break down. It is not sustainable. Look at the huge debt accumulated by most democracies.

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Sertorio
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:47 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:38 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:39 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:50 am
It is indeed difficult to adjust those principles to the instincts of the human species, but I still think that such an adjustment is possible. But it will require a high degree of decentralization of both political and economic power. Cooperatives and workers management, on the economic front, and a fair degree of direct democracy on the political front, may help getting it done.
You are right. The instincts of the human species is basically selfish. That is why Socialism has failed every time it has been tried. It leads to poverty and dictatorship. Hell on earth.
The same instincts will make any capitalist regime at least as bad as any attempted socialist system...
Sertorio,

That is the dumbest thing you have said. How can capitalist regime be anywhere as bad an any attempted Socialist system? Let's hold the ethnicity constant. Compare East to West Germany before the Unification. Then there are Communist China and Taiwan, N and S Korea, Castro's Cuba and Pinochet's Chile.

Taiwan, South Korea and Chile were once ruled by dictators, but they nowhere killed as many people as their socialist counterparts. Instead, they brought prosperity under capitalism and eventually became democracies.
The socialist regime in Cuba has been pretty innefficient as far as productivity is concerned, and people's incomes are modest. But everyone enjoys free education and free health care, and everybody has a source of income. From my point of view Cuba's system is definitely less bad than America's system. But your only measure of "goodness" is seeing how many millionaires each system has produced. The fact that most millionaire's wealth has been acquired by crooked means and by exploiting poorer people is of no concern to you. The fact that life expectancy in Cuba is higher than in the US means nothing to you...

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cassowary
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by cassowary » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:55 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:47 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:38 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:39 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:50 am
It is indeed difficult to adjust those principles to the instincts of the human species, but I still think that such an adjustment is possible. But it will require a high degree of decentralization of both political and economic power. Cooperatives and workers management, on the economic front, and a fair degree of direct democracy on the political front, may help getting it done.
You are right. The instincts of the human species is basically selfish. That is why Socialism has failed every time it has been tried. It leads to poverty and dictatorship. Hell on earth.
The same instincts will make any capitalist regime at least as bad as any attempted socialist system...
Sertorio,

That is the dumbest thing you have said. How can capitalist regime be anywhere as bad an any attempted Socialist system? Let's hold the ethnicity constant. Compare East to West Germany before the Unification. Then there are Communist China and Taiwan, N and S Korea, Castro's Cuba and Pinochet's Chile.

Taiwan, South Korea and Chile were once ruled by dictators, but they nowhere killed as many people as their socialist counterparts. Instead, they brought prosperity under capitalism and eventually became democracies.
The socialist regime in Cuba has been pretty innefficient as far as productivity is concerned, and people's incomes are modest. But everyone enjoys free education and free health care, and everybody has a source of income. From my point of view Cuba's system is definitely less bad than America's system. But your only measure of "goodness" is seeing how many millionaires each system has produced. The fact that most millionaire's wealth has been acquired by crooked means and by exploiting poorer people is of no concern to you. The fact that life expectancy in Cuba is higher than in the US means nothing to you...
The fact that thousands of Cubans flee to the US in leaky boats while the traffic is zero in the opposite direction (except for criminals fleeing from the law) means nothing to you.

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Sertorio
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:13 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:55 am

The fact that thousands of Cubans flee to the US in leaky boats while the traffic is zero in the opposite direction (except for criminals fleeing from the law) means nothing to you.
"Leaky" boats is something of the past.
The historic 2014 decision by U.S. President Barack Obama and Cuban President Raúl Castro to normalize relations opened a new era for Cuban migration. Anticipating an end to their special immigration treatment, Cuban arrivals more than doubled from fewer than 24,300 in fiscal year (FY) 2014 to 56,400 in FY 2016. During the final days of his presidency in January 2017, President Obama ended the “dry-foot” aspect of the policy, which had resulted in thousands of Cubans making their way through Central America and Mexico to reach the U.S. border. Since then, Cubans who have attempted to enter the United States without a visa have been deemed inadmissible and subject to deportation like other foreign nationals. However, those who enter on a visa remain eligible for a green card after one year in the country.
Portugal, which has a population similar to Cuba, has had, in the past few years, more than 100,000 emigrants each year. I see Cuban emigration a perfectly normal occurence, which will have little to do with the Cuban regime.

Jim the Moron
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Jim the Moron » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:35 pm

"Iranian diplomat charges US with inciting protests"
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/01/i ... 13194.html

Now, why would the dastardly Americans want to support anti-establishment protesters in Iran?

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cassowary
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by cassowary » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:01 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:13 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:55 am

The fact that thousands of Cubans flee to the US in leaky boats while the traffic is zero in the opposite direction (except for criminals fleeing from the law) means nothing to you.
"Leaky" boats is something of the past.
The historic 2014 decision by U.S. President Barack Obama and Cuban President Raúl Castro to normalize relations opened a new era for Cuban migration. Anticipating an end to their special immigration treatment, Cuban arrivals more than doubled from fewer than 24,300 in fiscal year (FY) 2014 to 56,400 in FY 2016. During the final days of his presidency in January 2017, President Obama ended the “dry-foot” aspect of the policy, which had resulted in thousands of Cubans making their way through Central America and Mexico to reach the U.S. border. Since then, Cubans who have attempted to enter the United States without a visa have been deemed inadmissible and subject to deportation like other foreign nationals. However, those who enter on a visa remain eligible for a green card after one year in the country.
Portugal, which has a population similar to Cuba, has had, in the past few years, more than 100,000 emigrants each year. I see Cuban emigration a perfectly normal occurence, which will have little to do with the Cuban regime.
Of course. it has a lot to do with the Cuban regime. People leave bum countries for better ones. Do Americans leave the US for your Socialist Utopia, Cuba? Why don't you migrate there?

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cassowary
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by cassowary » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:09 pm

Sertorio,

Your reluctance to admit the obvious proves that the "Psychologytoday" article I linked to is correct. Most people don't change their minds despite overwhelming evidence against their opinions. This is due to a strong emotional need to believe in whatever we want to believe.

Often it is a simple matter of pride. We all don't like to admit we are wrong. But in your case, you have already said that you do not have pride and I take your word for it. So it must be some other emotional need that makes you disregard the evidence.

Do you yearn for an idyllic childhood where all your needs are taken cared of? Thus, as an adult, you now want the state to take over the role of your parents when you were an infant?

Or do you yearn to find a meaning in life. Most people get it from their religion. Since you have no religion, your meaning in life rests in contributing in some small way to build a Socialist world, which Moses Hess called, the "heaven on earth"?

Or is there something else? Hunger for power perhaps? Are you a politician in Portugal who seek power by promising your voters other people's money? The usual technique employed by leftist politicians is to stoke envy and resentment to those who have higher income.

Or perhaps, you are one of the resentful, disgruntled envious people that leftist politicians prey on to gain votes

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dagbay
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by dagbay » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:29 pm

Dear Sertorio, I'd rather be a poor man in the US than ib Cuba any day. At least in the us I can work towards improved future with unlimited potencial. In any case life of a poor man sucks so I prefer to remain where I am.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

Jim the Moron
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Jim the Moron » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:34 pm

On how DEA's efforts were derailed to further the cynical Iran deal . . .

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2 ... stigation/

We have become habituated to the major blunders perpetrated by US foreign policy makers over the decades. But the degree to which an outfit like Hezbollah was allowed to carry out its criminal activities, especially drug trafficking, just to assist an administration's policy of assisting an enemy . . . treasonous.

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Milo
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Milo » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:26 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:34 pm
On how DEA's efforts were derailed to further the cynical Iran deal . . .

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2 ... stigation/

We have become habituated to the major blunders perpetrated by US foreign policy makers over the decades. But the degree to which an outfit like Hezbollah was allowed to carry out its criminal activities, especially drug trafficking, just to assist an administration's policy of assisting an enemy . . . treasonous.
Especially as they only began such activities, and the US only become aware of them, on the day Obama took office!

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