The Syria War

Discussion of current events
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Milo
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Re: The Syria War

Post by Milo » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:04 pm

dagbay wrote:I think that a pragmatic approach is required and it would be nice if Trump adopts it, after all he is a businessman and not an ideologue.
National survival must trump everything else. This includes reasonable condition for the citizens which allow prosperity and continuation of national political stability. With the national security in place then a nation can turn to like minded nations with similar view and national security and form an alliance. Next the allies can project support to other nations that wish make the transition to become part of the alliance. Any nation that does not wish to make the transition can be engaged with in trade and secondary agreements subject to the primary rules aforementioned.

This approach is unfortunately not acceptable to Liberals because it suggests that a Nation will stand on the sideline even when atrocities are performed in unallied parts of the world. Unfortunately however it is precisely the situation today and has been so for centuries in spite of all the cries for action. The basic premise is that any attempt to apply morality to international policy is doomed to bring harm or prove fatal to a Nation despite the noble intentions. This is similar to a bystander who must calculate his moves before attempting to block a bully from attacking a weaker opponent. One better make sure that the outcome will be better in the selected course of action and that the risks are manageable as far as one's survival. It is a sad reality.
In my view the idea of war crimes, brought in after WW II, was a mistake. Although the allies management of the Axis powers post WW II, justified mostly by that idea, was generally beneficial, the legal precedent put us on a slippery slope that is inevitably weakening the Westphalian convention to the point where we now treat non state actors more like states but also treat states more like non state actors. In point of fact, the 'civilian' status of terrorists means that the presumption is typically against any state actors fighting them.

This trend progressed from post war prosecution to the pre conflict "Duty to Protect". So now we (typically the countries who are rich) can interfere in other countries as invasively as we want, based on a suspicion!

War Crimes also inevitably led to "Peace Keeping", which led to "Peace Enforcement", which led to 'doing whatever we want, as long as we can say it's stopping something bad'.

So now our governments spend enormous amounts of resources to stop our enemies from killing each other, with the knock on effect that, unable to kill who they're really want, our enemies come here to kill us! Thus justifying more and more intrusion on our rights... Hmmm,, seems to work out from a certain point of view actually!

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The Syria War

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:52 pm

Sertorio wrote:
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sertorio wrote:Little by little the diplomatic side of the struggle is being taken over by Russia, Turkey and Iran, leaving the US and the European countries out of the picture. Hopefully this will lead to real peace in Syria and to the recognition by all Syrian parties of political and religious freedom for all. If successful this will be the signal that the US is no longer welcome in the ME.
The closest thing to peace would be dictatorship clamping down on simmering resentment. But if your regime wants that quagmire, the smartest thing American policymakers could do would be to give you exactly what you wish for.
American policymakers have for decades done exactly that, in countries such as Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Ukraine, etc.... Some of us would like to prevent that happening in Syria...
Ah, so it's American policymakers that are meddlesome in Ukraine, not their giant neighbour who's annexing pieces of it. Got it.
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Jim the Moron
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Re: The Syria War

Post by Jim the Moron » Wed May 17, 2017 3:57 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:05 am
RUSSIA, TURKEY & IRAN PREPARE DECLARATION ON IMMEDIATE STEPS IN RESOLVING SYRIAN CRISIS
https://southfront.org/russia-turkey-ir ... an-crisis/

Russia, Turkey and Iran have prepared a text of the Moscow declaration on immediate steps in resolving the Syrian conflict and are ready to guarant its implementation, Russia’s Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu announced.

“Today experts are working on the text of the Moscow declaration on immediate steps toward resolving the Syrian crisis. This is a thorough, extremely necessary document,” the Russian defense minister said at the meeting with his Iranian counterpart Hossein Dehghan.
Shoigu said that all previous “attempts to agree on joint efforts undertaken by the US or their partners were doomed” and added that “none of them exerted real influence on the situation on the ground.”

The Russian official emphasized that the approval of the declaration at the level of defense and foreign ministers shows a willingness to “act as guarantors and jointly resolve the urgent issues of the Syrian crisis.”

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Cavusoglu is also currently in Moscow for talks with Russia’s Sergey Lavrov and Iran’s Mohammad Javad Zarif. Cavusoglu said that the trilateral cooperation has proven its effectiveness in eastern Aleppo and vowed to spread ot to other parts of Syria.

Cavusoglu said tha the ceasefire should be implemented in all parts of Syria, but it doesn’t concern ISIS or Jabhat Fateh al-Sham (formerly Jabhat al-Nusra).
Little by little the diplomatic side of the struggle is being taken over by Russia, Turkey and Iran, leaving the US and the European countries out of the picture. Hopefully this will lead to real peace in Syria and to the recognition by all Syrian parties of political and religious freedom for all. If successful this will be the signal that the US is no longer welcome in the ME.
Well, how is that working out for the Turks these days . . .?

"The only major regional player who strongly opposes Syrian Kurdish ambitions is Turkey."

"Syria's Kurds Work All the Angles for Autonomy"
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... r-autonomy

It's "a flip from 2016, when Barack Obama's administration indicated that it didn't support Syrian Kurdish autonomy."

Jim the Moron
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Re: The Syria War

Post by Jim the Moron » Sun May 21, 2017 4:11 am

"ISIS kills villagers, captures fighters in Syria"
http://news.abs-cbn.com/overseas/05/20/ ... s-in-syria

Bit by bit, we learn of the glorious achievements of the Russia/Turkey/Iran coalition amassed against the infidels opposing the noble Assad.

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Sertorio
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Re: The Syria War

Post by Sertorio » Sun May 21, 2017 4:42 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 4:11 am
"ISIS kills villagers, captures fighters in Syria"
http://news.abs-cbn.com/overseas/05/20/ ... s-in-syria

Bit by bit, we learn of the glorious achievements of the Russia/Turkey/Iran coalition amassed against the infidels opposing the noble Assad.
Don't be impatient. The fighting isn't over yet...

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Sertorio
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Re: The Syria War

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:39 am

Present military situation in Syria (14.06.2017):

Image

Little by little the Syrian armed forces are squeezing terrorists out of the country. Soon the country will be free again, with a secular government which respects all faiths.

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armchair_pundit
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Re: The Syria War

Post by armchair_pundit » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:13 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:39 am
Present military situation in Syria (14.06.2017):

Image

Little by little the Syrian armed forces are squeezing terrorists out of the country. Soon the country will be a murderous, sadistic, vengeful dictatorship again, with a secular government which respects all faiths, killing and torturing them freely as they wish.

Fixed it.

In Sertorio's world, does "secular government" excuse all else, such as how Sertorio condemns the US for excusing the sins of capitalist governments?

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Sertorio
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Re: The Syria War

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:02 pm

armchair_pundit wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:13 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:39 am
Present military situation in Syria (14.06.2017):

Image

Little by little the Syrian armed forces are squeezing terrorists out of the country. Soon the country will be a murderous, sadistic, vengeful dictatorship again, with a secular government which respects all faiths, killing and torturing them freely as they wish.

Fixed it.

In Sertorio's world, does "secular government" excuse all else, such as how Sertorio condemns the US for excusing the sins of capitalist governments?
Image

How is the weather in Mars?... :roll:

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The Syria War

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:42 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:02 pm
Image

How is the weather in Mars?... :roll:
When your job is to defend Putin's odious client states, it's no wonder that's the best argument you can make!
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Sertorio
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Re: The Syria War

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:49 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:42 am
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:02 pm
Image

How is the weather in Mars?... :roll:
When your job is to defend Putin's odious client states, it's no wonder that's the best argument you can make!
I defend Putin's efforts to protect uncounted countries in the world from US imperialism. Thanks to Russia more countries will escape becoming the victims and vassals of America. Hopefully Europeans will come to understand that, and join Russia against US crazy policies.

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