Israel

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Israel

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:32 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:50 am
dagbay wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:26 pm
While Muslims in Iran are working underground to build a nuke and icbm. Other Muslims will soon be in a position to "inherit" and control an accomplished proven and fully developed nuclear arsenal of at least one of Europe's nations.
Which one do you have in mind?
Usually when people say this sort of thing they mean France.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

Jim the Moron
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Re: Israel

Post by Jim the Moron » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:38 am

"The variables haven't been changed much."

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/I-dont ... ion-501339
"There may be no solution to ME peace"

Finally, reality may be setting in.

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cassowary
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Re: Israel

Post by cassowary » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:44 am

There is a solultion. But it is drastic. Drive the Palestinians into Egypt and Jordan. Expel them on pain of death.

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dagbay
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Re: Israel

Post by dagbay » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:37 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:44 am
There is a solultion. But it is drastic. Drive the Palestinians into Egypt and Jordan. Expel them on pain of death.
While this will make a significant difference in the security of Jews in israel I believe that it will fail to bring about a resolution. There is a large Muslim Israeli contingency some of which is holding the same views as other Arabs. These antagonistic Muslims will continue to be violent perhaps with lesser intensity.
Israel in my opinion will not expel the Arabs who oppose its existance wholesale. The Arabs know that and therefore they can continue to obstruct any postulated resolution that has an Israel in it.
A better solution IMHO would be possible if the "humanitarian " aid from the EU block and the US would cease (nnow that too is a tall order). If the nations which matter decline to propagate the Arab narrative maybe they will change course lacking support from the Arab world and the west.


Don't hold your breath.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

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Sertorio
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Re: Israel

Post by Sertorio » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:22 am

dagbay wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:37 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:44 am
There is a solultion. But it is drastic. Drive the Palestinians into Egypt and Jordan. Expel them on pain of death.
While this will make a significant difference in the security of Jews in israel I believe that it will fail to bring about a resolution. There is a large Muslim Israeli contingency some of which is holding the same views as other Arabs. These antagonistic Muslims will continue to be violent perhaps with lesser intensity.
Israel in my opinion will not expel the Arabs who oppose its existance wholesale. The Arabs know that and therefore they can continue to obstruct any postulated resolution that has an Israel in it.
A better solution IMHO would be possible if the "humanitarian " aid from the EU block and the US would cease (nnow that too is a tall order). If the nations which matter decline to propagate the Arab narrative maybe they will change course lacking support from the Arab world and the west.


Don't hold your breath.
Another alternative would be to create one single state - without the Gaza strip - for Jews and Arabs, and make a major effort in education to make sure that the younger Arabs would grow with values compatible with the state of Israel. And to make available investment funds for the Arab population to reach a level of prosperity incompatible with any form of radicalism. There is no reason - not even the screwed Islam - for Arabs not to be as developed and productive as Jews.

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dagbay
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Re: Israel

Post by dagbay » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:35 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:22 am
dagbay wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:37 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:44 am
There is a solultion. But it is drastic. Drive the Palestinians into Egypt and Jordan. Expel them on pain of death.
While this will make a significant difference in the security of Jews in israel I believe that it will fail to bring about a resolution. There is a large Muslim Israeli contingency some of which is holding the same views as other Arabs. These antagonistic Muslims will continue to be violent perhaps with lesser intensity.
Israel in my opinion will not expel the Arabs who oppose its existance wholesale. The Arabs know that and therefore they can continue to obstruct any postulated resolution that has an Israel in it.
A better solution IMHO would be possible if the "humanitarian " aid from the EU block and the US would cease (nnow that too is a tall order). If the nations which matter decline to propagate the Arab narrative maybe they will change course lacking support from the Arab world and the west.


Don't hold your breath.
Another alternative would be to create one single state - without the Gaza strip - for Jews and Arabs, and make a major effort in education to make sure that the younger Arabs would grow with values compatible with the state of Israel. And to make available investment funds for the Arab population to reach a level of prosperity incompatible with any form of radicalism. There is no reason - not even the screwed Islam - for Arabs not to be as developed and productive as Jews.
1400++ years, Sertorio, and billions of petro dollars+billions of European and US taxpayers dollars went towards this "new Arab" with rhe result that the scourge is now spread to Europe and beyond.
In one place that I have heard about Chile, Arabs of ME descent as a community reached a high level of prosperity without money thrown at them. Do you think that they became assimilated and integrated? Nope.
Maybe in a few generations ....
In Israel there is no such hope since Jews will want to remain ethnically separat.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

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Sertorio
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Re: Israel

Post by Sertorio » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:54 am

dagbay wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:35 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:22 am
dagbay wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:37 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:44 am
There is a solultion. But it is drastic. Drive the Palestinians into Egypt and Jordan. Expel them on pain of death.
While this will make a significant difference in the security of Jews in israel I believe that it will fail to bring about a resolution. There is a large Muslim Israeli contingency some of which is holding the same views as other Arabs. These antagonistic Muslims will continue to be violent perhaps with lesser intensity.
Israel in my opinion will not expel the Arabs who oppose its existance wholesale. The Arabs know that and therefore they can continue to obstruct any postulated resolution that has an Israel in it.
A better solution IMHO would be possible if the "humanitarian " aid from the EU block and the US would cease (nnow that too is a tall order). If the nations which matter decline to propagate the Arab narrative maybe they will change course lacking support from the Arab world and the west.


Don't hold your breath.
Another alternative would be to create one single state - without the Gaza strip - for Jews and Arabs, and make a major effort in education to make sure that the younger Arabs would grow with values compatible with the state of Israel. And to make available investment funds for the Arab population to reach a level of prosperity incompatible with any form of radicalism. There is no reason - not even the screwed Islam - for Arabs not to be as developed and productive as Jews.
1400++ years, Sertorio, and billions of petro dollars+billions of European and US taxpayers dollars went towards this "new Arab" with rhe result that the scourge is now spread to Europe and beyond.
In one place that I have heard about Chile, Arabs of ME descent as a community reached a high level of prosperity without money thrown at them. Do you think that they became assimilated and integrated? Nope.
Maybe in a few generations ....
In Israel there is no such hope since Jews will want to remain ethnically separat.
In Brazil, Syrian and Lebanese have integrated without problems. And I believe Israelis would be quite capable of helping those 2 million Arbs living in Israel/Palestine to evolve further and faster than anywhere else. And 2 million Arabs - some of whom are Christian - would not endanger the identity of the 7 million Jews.

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dagbay
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Re: Israel

Post by dagbay » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:30 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:54 am
dagbay wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:35 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:22 am
dagbay wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:37 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:44 am
There is a solultion. But it is drastic. Drive the Palestinians into Egypt and Jordan. Expel them on pain of death.
While this will make a significant difference in the security of Jews in israel I believe that it will fail to bring about a resolution. There is a large Muslim Israeli contingency some of which is holding the same views as other Arabs. These antagonistic Muslims will continue to be violent perhaps with lesser intensity.
Israel in my opinion will not expel the Arabs who oppose its existance wholesale. The Arabs know that and therefore they can continue to obstruct any postulated resolution that has an Israel in it.
A better solution IMHO would be possible if the "humanitarian " aid from the EU block and the US would cease (nnow that too is a tall order). If the nations which matter decline to propagate the Arab narrative maybe they will change course lacking support from the Arab world and the west.


Don't hold your breath.
Another alternative would be to create one single state - without the Gaza strip - for Jews and Arabs, and make a major effort in education to make sure that the younger Arabs would grow with values compatible with the state of Israel. And to make available investment funds for the Arab population to reach a level of prosperity incompatible with any form of radicalism. There is no reason - not even the screwed Islam - for Arabs not to be as developed and productive as Jews.
1400++ years, Sertorio, and billions of petro dollars+billions of European and US taxpayers dollars went towards this "new Arab" with rhe result that the scourge is now spread to Europe and beyond.
In one place that I have heard about Chile, Arabs of ME descent as a community reached a high level of prosperity without money thrown at them. Do you think that they became assimilated and integrated? Nope.
Maybe in a few generations ....
In Israel there is no such hope since Jews will want to remain ethnically separat.
In Brazil, Syrian and Lebanese have integrated without problems. And I believe Israelis would be quite capable of helping those 2 million Arbs living in Israel/Palestine to evolve further and faster than anywhere else. And 2 million Arabs - some of whom are Christian - would not endanger the identity of the 7 million Jews.
What you are prescribing is taking place - very very very slowly - in Israel. Small minority of the Muslim Arab Israelis are even volunteering to serve the country like their fellow Jews in the military or allied forces. The incitement however is continuous from internal and external sources and a minority of Israeli Muslims turn to radicalization just the same.
One thing for sure the conflict in Israel is a tiny side show in the ME. The powers in play find it convenient to highlight it over their own activities; https://www.facebook.com/pakistanidefen ... 606342663/
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Israel

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:01 am

dagbay wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:37 pm
A better solution IMHO would be possible if the "humanitarian " aid from the EU block and the US would cease (nnow that too is a tall order).
If that includes aid to Israel, I'm in.

As someone who pays taxes in the U.S., the best solution to me is the "Reverse Aliyah" solution: let any citizen of Israel have permanent residency automatically on arrival to the U.S., and otherwise wash our hands of the whole place.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

Jim the Moron
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Re: Israel

Post by Jim the Moron » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:35 pm

"There may be no solution to ME peace." Better stated - there will never be peace for Israel. There will never be an end to Muslim envy of and hatred for Israel and the accomplished Jewish people.

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