Israel

Discussion of current events
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Doc
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Re: Israel

Post by Doc » Wed May 16, 2018 2:42 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:24 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:06 am
cassowary wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 6:22 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 12:28 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:59 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:03 am


Make it six million and it will be even with the holocaust...
Nah. We are all civilized people here. So we want to achieve peace between Israel and Palestinians with as little bloodshed as possible.

I don't think we even need 1,000,000 dead Palestinians. Maybe 100,000 will be enough. You see, the Palestinians don't want peace. They have not given up their mad dream of destroying Israel. Israel has proven itself willing to live in peace with the Palestinians time and again while the Palestinians have proven themselves unwilling to live in peace with Israel time and again.

They have not given up trying to destroy Israel because Israel has not killed enough of them. How many Palestinians must die before they accept Israel's right to exist? What's your guess?

The fewer the better of course. But that is up to the Palestinians. If you desire peace, let Israel kill lots of Palestinians each time they start their usual nonsense. You know. Hold a "peaceful " demonstration. Get people to bring their babies.

Mix in terrorists with weapons. Provoke the Israeli soldiers to shoot and they cynically hope that their babies and kids get killed. Then cry a lot in front of the cameras. The world protests against Israel. Next time, don't fall for it. Just ignore the Palestinian song and dance. Then you help the cause of peace.
Few things astonish me more than that the perfectly rational assessment above cannot be mooted in most company.

There are few issues that are more misunderstood by more people than the Palestinian problem.
Things have not changed much since the time of Jonah. The Caananites sacrificed their kids to the god Baal. The Palestinians sacrifice their kids to Allah by turning them into suicide bombers and dead bodies for the evening news.

If people are misinformed about the Palestinian situation it's because of their false conciousness. Like Sertorio.
The Israelis kicked Palestinians out of their homes and moved them onto reservations. I'm not a fan of Islam, and doubly not one of Hamas, but this conversation is taking place as though the people in Gaza and the West Bank have no legitimate grievance, and that's not so.
The Jews were willing to share Palestine with them right from the start. The miseries of the Palestinians are mostly self inflicted.
This is true Many Palestinians left Israel in 1947 of their own free will. The descendants of the ones that stayed are call Israeli Arabs.
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Milo
Posts: 1075
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Re: Israel

Post by Milo » Wed May 16, 2018 5:12 pm

Doc wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 2:42 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:24 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:06 am
cassowary wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 6:22 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 12:28 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:59 am


Nah. We are all civilized people here. So we want to achieve peace between Israel and Palestinians with as little bloodshed as possible.

I don't think we even need 1,000,000 dead Palestinians. Maybe 100,000 will be enough. You see, the Palestinians don't want peace. They have not given up their mad dream of destroying Israel. Israel has proven itself willing to live in peace with the Palestinians time and again while the Palestinians have proven themselves unwilling to live in peace with Israel time and again.

They have not given up trying to destroy Israel because Israel has not killed enough of them. How many Palestinians must die before they accept Israel's right to exist? What's your guess?

The fewer the better of course. But that is up to the Palestinians. If you desire peace, let Israel kill lots of Palestinians each time they start their usual nonsense. You know. Hold a "peaceful " demonstration. Get people to bring their babies.

Mix in terrorists with weapons. Provoke the Israeli soldiers to shoot and they cynically hope that their babies and kids get killed. Then cry a lot in front of the cameras. The world protests against Israel. Next time, don't fall for it. Just ignore the Palestinian song and dance. Then you help the cause of peace.
Few things astonish me more than that the perfectly rational assessment above cannot be mooted in most company.

There are few issues that are more misunderstood by more people than the Palestinian problem.
Things have not changed much since the time of Jonah. The Caananites sacrificed their kids to the god Baal. The Palestinians sacrifice their kids to Allah by turning them into suicide bombers and dead bodies for the evening news.

If people are misinformed about the Palestinian situation it's because of their false conciousness. Like Sertorio.
The Israelis kicked Palestinians out of their homes and moved them onto reservations. I'm not a fan of Islam, and doubly not one of Hamas, but this conversation is taking place as though the people in Gaza and the West Bank have no legitimate grievance, and that's not so.
The Jews were willing to share Palestine with them right from the start. The miseries of the Palestinians are mostly self inflicted.
This is true Many Palestinians left Israel in 1947 of their own free will. The descendants of the ones that stayed are call Israeli Arabs.
Furthermore, few Palestinians owned that land, generally they were more like itinerant agricultural labour.

Worth noting too that despite that Palestinians lived on territory under Jordanian and Egyptian control, neither country has ever offered to naturalize any Palestinian, instead insisting that those people are part of a non existent country.

The "reservations" are a product of UN resolutions and the border restrictions that maintain them are enforced by Arab countries as well as Israel.

So, although the Palestinian have grievances aplenty, they should direct them to their own leaders and the Arab world, not Israel.

Jim the Moron
Posts: 753
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Re: Israel

Post by Jim the Moron » Wed May 16, 2018 6:29 pm

Milo wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:12 pm
Doc wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 2:42 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:24 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:06 am
cassowary wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 6:22 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 12:28 pm


Few things astonish me more than that the perfectly rational assessment above cannot be mooted in most company.

There are few issues that are more misunderstood by more people than the Palestinian problem.
Things have not changed much since the time of Jonah. The Caananites sacrificed their kids to the god Baal. The Palestinians sacrifice their kids to Allah by turning them into suicide bombers and dead bodies for the evening news.

If people are misinformed about the Palestinian situation it's because of their false conciousness. Like Sertorio.
The Israelis kicked Palestinians out of their homes and moved them onto reservations. I'm not a fan of Islam, and doubly not one of Hamas, but this conversation is taking place as though the people in Gaza and the West Bank have no legitimate grievance, and that's not so.
The Jews were willing to share Palestine with them right from the start. The miseries of the Palestinians are mostly self inflicted.
This is true Many Palestinians left Israel in 1947 of their own free will. The descendants of the ones that stayed are call Israeli Arabs.
Furthermore, few Palestinians owned that land, generally they were more like itinerant agricultural labour.

Worth noting too that despite that Palestinians lived on territory under Jordanian and Egyptian control, neither country has ever offered to naturalize any Palestinian, instead insisting that those people are part of a non existent country.

The "reservations" are a product of UN resolutions and the border restrictions that maintain them are enforced by Arab countries as well as Israel.

So, although the Palestinian have grievances aplenty, they should direct them to their own leaders and the Arab world, not Israel.
Yes, Arab leaders don't act in the best interests of their people.
"The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." (Abba Eban)

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cassowary
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Re: Israel

Post by cassowary » Wed May 16, 2018 10:59 pm

Also don't forget the refugees arose out of the first Arab Israeli war when 5 Arab countries attacked Israel in 1948 to destroy the nascent Jewish state because they refused to accept it. That was the original sin.

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Milo
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Re: Israel

Post by Milo » Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:59 pm
Also don't forget the refugees arose out of the first Arab Israeli war when 5 Arab countries attacked Israel in 1948 to destroy the nascent Jewish state because they refused to accept it. That was the original sin.
Those who support the Palestinian thugocracy are huge fans of 'international law', yet nobody has taken the Arab world to task for creating and perpetuating an enormous human shield operation, where the Palestinian people serve as a buffer for the Arab world and fodder for well meaning fools' outrage porn.

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Sertorio
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Re: Israel

Post by Sertorio » Thu May 17, 2018 9:16 am

Milo wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 am

Those who support the Palestinian thugocracy are huge fans of 'international law', yet nobody has taken the Arab world to task for creating and perpetuating an enormous human shield operation, where the Palestinian people serve as a buffer for the Arab world and fodder for well meaning fools' outrage porn.
Any court capable of condemning the Arabs on that account would have to condemn all Syrian rebels - and their sponsors - for doing exactly the same...

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cassowary
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Re: Israel

Post by cassowary » Thu May 17, 2018 1:09 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:16 am
Milo wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 am

Those who support the Palestinian thugocracy are huge fans of 'international law', yet nobody has taken the Arab world to task for creating and perpetuating an enormous human shield operation, where the Palestinian people serve as a buffer for the Arab world and fodder for well meaning fools' outrage porn.
Any court capable of condemning the Arabs on that account would have to condemn all Syrian rebels - and their sponsors - for doing exactly the same...
What are you talking about? Assad is a thug who deserves to be overthrown.

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Doc
Posts: 1684
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Israel

Post by Doc » Thu May 17, 2018 4:57 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:29 pm
Milo wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:12 pm
Doc wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 2:42 pm
cassowary wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:24 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:06 am
cassowary wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 6:22 pm


Things have not changed much since the time of Jonah. The Caananites sacrificed their kids to the god Baal. The Palestinians sacrifice their kids to Allah by turning them into suicide bombers and dead bodies for the evening news.

If people are misinformed about the Palestinian situation it's because of their false conciousness. Like Sertorio.
The Israelis kicked Palestinians out of their homes and moved them onto reservations. I'm not a fan of Islam, and doubly not one of Hamas, but this conversation is taking place as though the people in Gaza and the West Bank have no legitimate grievance, and that's not so.
The Jews were willing to share Palestine with them right from the start. The miseries of the Palestinians are mostly self inflicted.
This is true Many Palestinians left Israel in 1947 of their own free will. The descendants of the ones that stayed are call Israeli Arabs.
Furthermore, few Palestinians owned that land, generally they were more like itinerant agricultural labour.

Worth noting too that despite that Palestinians lived on territory under Jordanian and Egyptian control, neither country has ever offered to naturalize any Palestinian, instead insisting that those people are part of a non existent country.

The "reservations" are a product of UN resolutions and the border restrictions that maintain them are enforced by Arab countries as well as Israel.

So, although the Palestinian have grievances aplenty, they should direct them to their own leaders and the Arab world, not Israel.
Yes, Arab leaders don't act in the best interests of their people.
"The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." (Abba Eban)
Indeed Except in cases where the opportunity is to scratch ones nose.

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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Sertorio
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Re: Israel

Post by Sertorio » Thu May 17, 2018 6:05 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:09 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:16 am
Milo wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 am

Those who support the Palestinian thugocracy are huge fans of 'international law', yet nobody has taken the Arab world to task for creating and perpetuating an enormous human shield operation, where the Palestinian people serve as a buffer for the Arab world and fodder for well meaning fools' outrage porn.
Any court capable of condemning the Arabs on that account would have to condemn all Syrian rebels - and their sponsors - for doing exactly the same...
What are you talking about? Assad is a thug who deserves to be overthrown.
I just realized that you do not understand or believe in your own arguments...

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SteveFoerster
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Location: Northern Virginia, USA and Dominica, West Indies
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Re: Israel

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri May 18, 2018 8:11 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:09 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:16 am
Milo wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 am

Those who support the Palestinian thugocracy are huge fans of 'international law', yet nobody has taken the Arab world to task for creating and perpetuating an enormous human shield operation, where the Palestinian people serve as a buffer for the Arab world and fodder for well meaning fools' outrage porn.
Any court capable of condemning the Arabs on that account would have to condemn all Syrian rebels - and their sponsors - for doing exactly the same...
What are you talking about? Assad is a thug who deserves to be overthrown.
Perhaps. But all U.S. policymakers got for trying to force that result was (1) the hypocrisy and shame of of collaboration with al-Qaeda, (2) deteriorated relations with Russia and Turkey, (3) a massive embarrassing demonstration that the U.S. is much weaker at projecting power in the region than it used to be, (4) Europe flooded with refugees, and (5) however many unnecessarily dead Syrians.

It's been an unmitigated clusterfuck.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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