The Western Backlash Against Islam

Discussion of current events
Jim the Moron
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Re: The Western Backlash Against Islam

Post by Jim the Moron » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:02 am

German officials outraged . . .

"Berlin 'dismayed and furious' over murder of German women in Egypt"
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/wor ... pt-9034760

How many times must we see non-Muslims slaughtered by Muslim primitives until folks begin to realize that there is no effort being exerted by radical Muslim clergy to call off the terrorist dogs?

neverfail
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Re: They may have brought it on themselves?

Post by neverfail » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:05 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:02 am
German officials outraged . . .

"Berlin 'dismayed and furious' over murder of German women in Egypt"
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/wor ... pt-9034760

How many times must we see non-Muslims slaughtered by Muslim primitives until folks begin to realize that there is no effort being exerted by radical Muslim clergy to call off the terrorist dogs?
:? :idea:

Advice to women visiting any country of Islamic heritage where there may be locals who violently object to female sunbathers who lay on the beach bare breasted:

Don't be a jerk-a; wear a burka! :)

Jim the Moron
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Re: They may have brought it on themselves?

Post by Jim the Moron » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:33 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:05 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:02 am
German officials outraged . . .

"Berlin 'dismayed and furious' over murder of German women in Egypt"
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/wor ... pt-9034760

How many times must we see non-Muslims slaughtered by Muslim primitives until folks begin to realize that there is no effort being exerted by radical Muslim clergy to call off the terrorist dogs?
:? :idea:

Advice to women visiting any country of Islamic heritage where there may be locals who violently object to female sunbathers who lay on the beach bare breasted:

Don't be a jerk-a; wear a burka! :)
Perhaps it is futile to point out that Islamic savagery is directed at non-believers, bare breasted or not.

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cassowary
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ISIS defeated in Iraq: Mosul is liberated

Post by cassowary » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:39 pm

Iraqis celebrate Mosul liberation

I think credit goes to Trump and the Iraqi army. After 8 years of weak leadership under oBUMa, America is back.

neverfail
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Re: Mosul is liberated from ISIS by a Shia army.

Post by neverfail » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:47 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:39 pm
Iraqis celebrate Mosul liberation

I think credit goes to Trump and the Iraqi army. After 8 years of weak leadership under oBUMa, America is back.
So a Shia Muslim Iraqi army (what other type of Iraqi army is there these days?) has finally recovered the city that the same army lost to (Sunni) ISIS two years earlier virtually without a fight! :?

Perhaps cassowary might edify me as to how the loss of Mosul was Obama's fault and the recent recovery has anything to do with Donald trump?

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cassowary
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Re: The Western Backlash Against Islam

Post by cassowary » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:51 pm

oBUMa withdrew US forces prematurely and then weakly supported the Iraqis. Trump supported the Iraqi army with more intense bomb strikes while the Iraqis did the dangerous ground war.
A number of former and current military leaders who were in power when all U.S. troops left Iraq are saying today that the complete exit left the door open for the Islamic State’s land grab.
The assessment comes from the Army chief of staff, a former Marine commandant, a former U.S. Central Command chief, a former defense secretary and, privately, from the officer now running the war in Iraq against the Islamic State, also known as ISIL and ISIS.
It is common sense.

Mosul fell to ISIS in 2014. Yet oBUMa failed to help the Iraqis retake the city. It took Trump only 6 months to achieve this.

neverfail
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Re: The Western Backlash Against Islam

Post by neverfail » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:35 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:51 pm
oBUMa withdrew US forces prematurely and then weakly supported the Iraqis. Trump supported the Iraqi army with more intense bomb strikes while the Iraqis did the dangerous ground war.
A number of former and current military leaders who were in power when all U.S. troops left Iraq are saying today that the complete exit left the door open for the Islamic State’s land grab.
The assessment comes from the Army chief of staff, a former Marine commandant, a former U.S. Central Command chief, a former defense secretary and, privately, from the officer now running the war in Iraq against the Islamic State, also known as ISIL and ISIS.
It is common sense.

Mosul fell to ISIS in 2014. Yet oBUMa failed to help the Iraqis retake the city. It took Trump only 6 months to achieve this.
I disagree with the short-term view of (respectively) "a former Marine commandant, a former U.S. Central Command chief, a former defense secretary" (all of whom as interested parties likely wanted to deflect blame from themselves for the Iraq disaster to protect their good names for posterity) but choose to take the long view. The rise of ISIS was guaranteed by the 2003 gratuitous US led invasion of Iraq and the subsequent bungling of US policy (if there was anything better than ad hoc improvisation on the run) on the reconstruction of that country.

Obama, I believe, acted in good faith. Considering the number of years US forces had been in Iraq basically as an army of occupation and the vast sums of money the US had spent attempting to rectify the shambles that earlier US policy had made: Obama would have been right to assume/presume that by then Iraq should be able to stand on its own two feet. The fact that the Iraqi army crumbled at the first sound of ISIS gunfire in the Sunni north of the country is to me a sign that the (Shia) Iraqi army did not believe in its mission in nation building.

The Sunnis of Iraq (never lose sight of this) historically regard their Shia countrymen as "the enemy". When President Shrub abolished Saddam Hussein's army in the wake of the American conquest he also abolished the only means the Sunni minority had of defending itself from the vengeance of the Shia.

Another point about Obama's withdrawal of American troops is that the longer they stayed the more it was evident that post-invasion Iraq was merely an American artifice being propped up by the Yanks. So why not now let iraq stand upon its own two feet and therefore gain authority in its own right on its own merit?

Jim the Moron
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Re: The Western Backlash Against Islam

Post by Jim the Moron » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:06 pm

"So why not now let Iraq stand upon its own two feet . . ." - Precisely correct, n'fail. And the same should be said for all other West Asian and North African Islamic entities. Let them butcher one another as they please, without outside interference.

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cassowary
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Re: The Western Backlash Against Islam

Post by cassowary » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:22 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:35 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:51 pm
oBUMa withdrew US forces prematurely and then weakly supported the Iraqis. Trump supported the Iraqi army with more intense bomb strikes while the Iraqis did the dangerous ground war.
A number of former and current military leaders who were in power when all U.S. troops left Iraq are saying today that the complete exit left the door open for the Islamic State’s land grab.
The assessment comes from the Army chief of staff, a former Marine commandant, a former U.S. Central Command chief, a former defense secretary and, privately, from the officer now running the war in Iraq against the Islamic State, also known as ISIL and ISIS.
It is common sense.

Mosul fell to ISIS in 2014. Yet oBUMa failed to help the Iraqis retake the city. It took Trump only 6 months to achieve this.
I disagree with the short-term view of (respectively) "a former Marine commandant, a former U.S. Central Command chief, a former defense secretary" (all of whom as interested parties likely wanted to deflect blame from themselves for the Iraq disaster to protect their good names for posterity) but choose to take the long view. The rise of ISIS was guaranteed by the 2003 gratuitous US led invasion of Iraq and the subsequent bungling of US policy (if there was anything better than ad hoc improvisation on the run) on the reconstruction of that country.

Obama, I believe, acted in good faith. Considering the number of years US forces had been in Iraq basically as an army of occupation and the vast sums of money the US had spent attempting to rectify the shambles that earlier US policy had made: Obama would have been right to assume/presume that by then Iraq should be able to stand on its own two feet. The fact that the Iraqi army crumbled at the first sound of ISIS gunfire in the Sunni north of the country is to me a sign that the (Shia) Iraqi army did not believe in its mission in nation building.

The Sunnis of Iraq (never lose sight of this) historically regard their Shia countrymen as "the enemy". When President Shrub abolished Saddam Hussein's army in the wake of the American conquest he also abolished the only means the Sunni minority had of defending itself from the vengeance of the Shia.

Another point about Obama's withdrawal of American troops is that the longer they stayed the more it was evident that post-invasion Iraq was merely an American artifice being propped up by the Yanks. So why not now let iraq stand upon its own two feet and therefore gain authority in its own right on its own merit?
If the US withdrew from Europe and Japan immediately after WWII, I think these areas would have fallen to Socialism/Communism. Islamism (as exemplified by Al Qaeda and ISIS) has taken the place of Socialism/Comminism. Both are evil ideologies that have caused millions of deaths.

Iraq, like W Europe and Japan after WWII was not strong enough to stand on their own. Indeed, US troops have remained till this day. The failure is that the West, especially the western left, failed to see Islamism as another deadly ideology like Socialism/Communism. So oBUMa prematurely withdrew before the Iraqis were ready.

It takes Trump to right this error. The US army was not an army of occupation. it was an army of liberation from Saddam's tyranny. It managed to bring back a semblance of democracy to Iraq. But knowing Muslims, burdened by the disability that Islam imposes on them, will screw it up.

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cassowary
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Re: The Western Backlash Against Islam

Post by cassowary » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:27 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:06 pm
"So why not now let Iraq stand upon its own two feet . . ." - Precisely correct, n'fail. And the same should be said for all other West Asian and North African Islamic entities. Let them butcher one another as they please, without outside interference.
That is a tempting idea and I have fallen into temptation sometimes with this. But problem is that they don't leave the rest of us alone. ISIS sends its fighters to our lands to kill us. Also, Muslim lands hold much of the world's oil. Thus ISIS has the potential to cause us economic hardship should the oil supply gets disrupted. Do you want ISIS to gain control of Iraqi oil-fields? They will fund ISIS groups all over the world.

Fortunately, Trump has ditched Paris Accord to go full steam ahead to make America energy self-sufficient and maybe even energy dominant (his words). By this, I think he wants the make the US a major oil/gas exporter. If the US can also supply its allies in Europe and Asia, we can truly wash our hands from the Mid East.

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